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Old 07-24-2013, 11:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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This is why we can't have nice things, like privacy.

The NSA amendment, which would restrict the activities of the NSA by demanding accountability not from a court that is completely staffed by one person with no oversight, but instead by Congress, has failed in the House, falling short of passing by 12 votes.

If there is anything Democrats and Republicans agree on, it's that the government should be able to know more and more about you, and you should be able to know less and less about it.

To be fair, a good number of Democrats and libertarian Republicans supported this measure, which was largely rejected by the Tea Party/GOP majority. The measure was supported by, of all people, the President himself and the actual NSA itself.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._12_votes.html

Amendment to Restrict the NSA's Snooping Power Fails in the House by 12 Votes
By David Weigel
Posted Wednesday, July 24, 2013, at 7:12 PM

Earlier this week, it became clear that a libertarian/liberal-backed amendment to restrict the National Security Agency might actually pass. Michigan Reps. Justin Amash and John Conyers (a Republican and a Democrat) wrote the amendment, intending to add it to the Defense Appropriations Bill and restrict the NSA from collecting metadata on Americans not under suspicion of terrorist activities.

Polls showed the idea -- depending on how you describe it -- playing incredibly well. Members of Congress read polls. With that in mind, and with other anti-NSA amendments in the offing, the agency actually met with select members of Congress to lobby them. Last night, the White House released a statement to "urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation."

The amendment finally came up for debate early this evening. "They'll tell you there's no expectation of privacy in documents that are stored with a third party," said Amash, attempting to pre-empt his critics. "Tell that to the American people!"

For seven minutes, he paraded out a series of Republican and Democratic allies beseeching the Congress to geld the NSA. "We should be doing the balancing," said South Carolina Rep. Mick Mulvaney. "We were elected to do that. We should pass this amendment so we do the balancing, not people we don't know who we did not elect." Texas Rep. Ted Poe appealed to a revolutionary spirit: "No judge would every sign a general warrant, like the British did, allowing each home on the block to be searched."

All helpful stuff, but not as helpful as the endorsement of Wisconsin Rep. James Sensenbrenner. As chairman of the Judiciary Committee after 9/11, he helped pass then defend the PATRIOT Act. "This amendment does not stop the collection of data under Section 215," he said, "people suspected of involvement in a terrorist plot."

The opposition blew past all that. The current House Intelligence Chairman, Rep. Mike Rogers, accused the Amash-ites of ignorance. Had they been in the room, learning how the program worked? "So 14 different judges are wrong, and 800 cases are wrong?" Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann spent two and a half minutes attacking the amendment, insisting that "a false narrative has emerged that the federal government is taking in the content of the American people's emails."

"It's not true," said Bachmann, a fan of definitive statements. "It's not happening."

The anti-amendment side gave its closing remark time to Arkansas Rep. Tom Cotton, a freshman and Iraq War veteran who's being urged to run for U.S. Senate. Once again, more in sorrow than in anger, he wondered why the Amash side was so naive. "This program has stopped dozens of terrorist attacks," said Cotton. "That means it's saved thousands of American lives." Metadata was merely "an excel spreadsheet with five columns" -- brave soldiers collect this sort of data on thumb drives, on the battlefield.

"To find a needle in a haystack, you need a haystack," said Cotton -- paraphrasing Obama administration deputy attorney general James Cole. "This takes a leaf blower and blows away the entire haystack."

Most Republicans applauded Cotton when he finished -- then on to the vote. It was set up in a manner that would give them some cover back home. Kansas Rep. Mike Pompeo had offered a rival anti-NSA-looking amendment, which received little attention because it largely just reiterated current law. The House voted on that amendment first, passing it by a landslide.

Then came Amash's language. In just three minutes, it went straight down -- 217 members voted against it, and 205 voted for it. Most Republicans who voted went against Amash, 134-94. Most Democrats went with Amash, and Conyers, on a 111-83 vote. Had seven members of any party switched their votes, the amendment would have been adopted. But the Speaker of the House wanted this sucker to go down. He voted against it, something he doesn't have to do unless a bill's in trouble, and as the vote came in he could be heard saying "I like all those 'no' votes!"
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:32 AM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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This was what Amash's office put out on the NSA Amendment that has now been shot down:

http://amash.house.gov/speech/amash-...ent-fact-sheet

Amash NSA Amendment Fact Sheet
Jul 24, 2013

Amash Amendment #100: Stop NSA’s Blanket Surveillance of Americans

On Wednesday, the House will have its first floor debate over NSA’s blanket collection of Americans’ telephone records. The Amash-Conyers amendment—and only the Amash-Conyers amendment—ends the indiscriminate collection of those records. The amendment limits the government’s collection of records under Section 215 of the Patriot Act to those records that pertain to a person who is subject to an investigation under that provision.

How Sec. 215 surveillance works

The Patriot Act’s Sec. 215 (50 U.S.C. 1861) authorizes the government to collect “tangible things” that are “relevant” to an authorized national security investigation.

We now know that NSA used Sec. 215 to collect metadata on every phone call that every American has made, reportedly over the last seven years. That metadata includes numbers dialed, numbers of incoming calls, times of the calls, and routing information. Many Members who voted for the Patriot Act, including the past chairman of the law’s authorizing committee, have stated that NSA’s blanket surveillance program is far beyond what was intended in the law.

Pursuant to Sec. 215 and at the request of the government, the FISA court routinely enters 90-day orders to telecommunications providers like Verizon to turn over to the government all call detail records or “telephony metadata” for calls within the U.S., including purely local calls. The FISA court approves the procedures that the administration says it will impose on itself to limit its own access to the data.

The administration has not provided a public explanation as to how the telephone records of all Americans are “relevant” to a national security investigation. Similarly, Sec. 215 is silent as to how the government may use these records once it has obtained them.

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does

The Amash-Conyers amendment ends NSA’s blanket collection of Americans’ telephone records. It does this by requiring the FISA court under Sec. 215 to order the production of records that pertain only to a person under investigation.

The amendment has three important practical effects. First, it ends the mass surveillance of Americans. The government no longer is authorized under Sec. 215 to hold a pool of metadata on every phone call of every American. Second, the amendment permits the government to continue to acquire business records and other “tangible things” that are actually related to an authorized counterterrorism investigation. The government still has access to this tool under the amendment, but it’s forced to comply with the intent of Congress when it passed Sec. 215. Third, the amendment imposes more robust judicial oversight of NSA’s surveillance. The FISA court will be involved every time NSA searches Americans’ records, and the court will have a substantive, statutory standard to apply to make sure the NSA does not violate Americans’ civil liberties.

What steps would the government take to collect records if the Amash-Conyers amendment were enacted? The government would have to provide facts to the FISA court to show that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records sought (1) are relevant to an appropriately authorized national security investigation and (2) pertain to the person (including any group or corporation) under investigation.

We know that the government can use that process effectively in its investigations because it already does. Based on the government’s public statements, it appears that the government routinely goes to the FISA court for Sec. 215 orders for tangible things pertaining to persons under investigation. If the government uses non-bulk collection for other Sec. 215 orders, there is no good reason why the government needs bulk collection of Americans’ telephone metadata.

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does NOT do

The amendment does not affect foreign surveillance. FISA simply does not apply to the surveillance of purely foreign communications. See 50 U.S.C. 1802. FISA court orders under Sec. 215 cover local telephone calls (wholly within the U.S.) and calls between the U.S. and abroad. NSA’s Sec. 215 phone surveillance program covers only calls in which at least one side is in the U.S.

The amendment does not restrict the types of records that the government can collect under Sec. 215. NSA and the FBI can continue to collect telephone records, car rental reservations, hotel receipts, and any other “tangible thing” under Sec. 215. NSA can continue to collect telephone metadata without a warrant and without probable cause that a crime or other statutory violation has been committed. The amendment simply requires that there be a reasonable connection between the documents sought and the person under investigation.

The amendment does not take away a tool that has proved effective in the fight against terrorism. The administration claims that surveillance conducted under FISA Sec. 702, including the PRISM program, has disrupted terrorist plots, including the New York subway plot. The Amash-Conyers amendment does not address FISA Sec. 702 in any way. The amendment concerns Patriot Act Sec. 215 alone, not Sec. 702. The administration’s one and only public example of a Sec. 215 “success” is the conviction of a taxi driver for sending money to a Somali group. Reports suggest that the Somali group posed no direct threat to the U.S., the investigation did not uncover an imminent threat, and the data could have been obtained without Sec. 215. For that “success,” the government has collected billions of Americans’ records.

As you go home for August recess, you will be asked: Did you oppose the suspicionless collection of every American’s phone records? When you had the chance to stand up for Americans’ privacy, did you? Please support Amash amendment #100 and oppose the NSA’s blanket surveillance of your constituents.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:17 AM   #3
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"Amendment to Restrict the NSA's Snooping Power Fails in the House by 12 Votes"

oh shucks. missed it by that much..



"This program has stopped dozens of terrorist attacks," said Cotton. "That means it's saved thousands of American lives."

really, rep cotton? As previously stated, congress does not know any more about the secret spying our secret gov't is doing than the american people do. so, no sir, that is a bold faced lie. but nice try mr. "republican" and welcome to the party you cock sucking strawberry.

and hey, you go ahead and trade your liberty for safety, I'll stick with my liberty and my ability to protect it. ****ing crooks.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:36 AM   #4
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Your use of "tea party" in the OP reminds me of BEP's use of "neocon". Words with no coherent meaning.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:49 AM   #5
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You know why we can't have nice things like privacy? Progressive income taxation is why we can't have privacy. If we funded our government through transaction taxes, even if the transaction was a paycheck, we could eliminate the need for each of us to "voluntarily" provide the government with our financial biography every April 15, but then we wouldn't be able to tax high income earners at a higher rate than low income earners.

My guess is that Direckshun has no problem trading privacy for the ability to transfer wealth via progressive taxation.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:01 AM   #6
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The likes of Tom Cotton are very dangerous to this country. This just again shows Republicans don't get it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
The likes of Tom Cotton are very dangerous to this country. This just again shows Republicans don't get it.
Tom Cotton is potential POTUS material.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Tom Cotton is potential POTUS material.
Harvard law degree.......check
War hero served his country honorably......... check

Except what he thinks and believes makes him a RWNJ with looney views

  • The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom
  • He wants to end medicare
  • turn Social Secuity into a vocher program
  • Public schools into a voucher program
  • Outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and insest
  • The recent 100% cuts of food stamps didn't go far enough
  • Voted against disaster aid for other states. Voted for his state to receive aid.
  • Terrorists have reached their target under Obama better than under Bush
  • Voted against renewing violence against women act.
He's just another tea party RWNJ who decided to not apply his education to some critical thinking skills.


He has zero chance to be president. Even a moderate Republican may never be president again.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Harvard law degree.......check
War hero served his country honorably......... check

Except what he thinks and believes makes him a RWNJ with looney views

  • The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom
  • He wants to end medicare
  • turn Social Secuity into a vocher program
  • Public schools into a voucher program
  • Outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and insest
  • The recent 100% cuts of food stamps didn't go far enough
  • Voted against disaster aid for other states. Voted for his state to receive aid.
  • Terrorists have reached their target under Obama better than under Bush
  • Voted against renewing violence against women act.
He's just another tea party RWNJ who decided to not apply his education to some critical thinking skills.


He has zero chance to be president. Even a moderate Republican may never be president again.
Keep dreaming.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Harvard law degree.......check
War hero served his country honorably......... check

Except what he thinks and believes makes him a RWNJ with looney views

  • The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom
  • He wants to end medicare
  • turn Social Secuity into a vocher program
  • Public schools into a voucher program
  • Outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and insest
  • The recent 100% cuts of food stamps didn't go far enough
  • Voted against disaster aid for other states. Voted for his state to receive aid.
  • Terrorists have reached their target under Obama better than under Bush
  • Voted against renewing violence against women act.
He's just another tea party RWNJ who decided to not apply his education to some critical thinking skills.


He has zero chance to be president. Even a moderate Republican may never be president again.
Critical thinking skills ceased to be a pre-requisite long ago.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Keep dreaming.
You keep reading and believing the BS that the RWNJ's are putting out there that the Republican party doesn't need the Latino vote, just more white votes.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
*
BTW, BRC, what whacko leftwing website did you get this list from?
  • The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom

    This was something he said a long time ago... when he was a student... when the internet was much less developed. This isn't something he said about the internet of today.
  • He wants to end medicare

    You don't know what you're talking about. This is how I know you got this list from a shill site.
  • turn Social Secuity into a vocher program

    I don't know anything about this. More than likely, you don't either.
  • Public schools into a voucher program

    This is a mainstream conservative position that is popular with regular people. If anything, it would help him become President.
  • Outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and insest

    He's pro-life. Shocker. I don't know where he stands on the exceptions, but either way, it doesn't make him a nut job. It just makes him one of the millions of people who are pro-life in this country.
  • The recent 100% cuts of food stamps didn't go far enough

    You'd better have your shill site check their math. That doesn't make sense.
  • Voted against disaster aid for other states. Voted for his state to receive aid.

    Shill sites take votes out of context to fool people like you.
  • Terrorists have reached their target under Obama better than under Bush

    True. Tom Cotton would fix that.
  • Voted against renewing violence against women act.

    Good. We already have laws prohibiting violence against women. We don't need a slush fund for leftwing groups that profit from it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
To be fair, a good number of Democrats and libertarian Republicans supported this measure, which was largely rejected by the Tea Party/GOP majority. The measure was supported by, of all people, the President himself and the actual NSA itself.

Further proof that the Rachel Maddow set in this country are utterly clueless on what the tea party actually even is. To them, it's "whatever I really disagree with, that's the tea party."
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Tom Cotton is potential POTUS material.
you're just trolling ain't you?
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:57 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Further proof that the Rachel Maddow set in this country are utterly clueless on what the tea party actually even is. To them, it's "whatever I really disagree with, that's the tea party."
I agree.
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