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Old 07-24-2013, 11:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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This is why we can't have nice things, like privacy.

The NSA amendment, which would restrict the activities of the NSA by demanding accountability not from a court that is completely staffed by one person with no oversight, but instead by Congress, has failed in the House, falling short of passing by 12 votes.

If there is anything Democrats and Republicans agree on, it's that the government should be able to know more and more about you, and you should be able to know less and less about it.

To be fair, a good number of Democrats and libertarian Republicans supported this measure, which was largely rejected by the Tea Party/GOP majority. The measure was supported by, of all people, the President himself and the actual NSA itself.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._12_votes.html

Amendment to Restrict the NSA's Snooping Power Fails in the House by 12 Votes
By David Weigel
Posted Wednesday, July 24, 2013, at 7:12 PM

Earlier this week, it became clear that a libertarian/liberal-backed amendment to restrict the National Security Agency might actually pass. Michigan Reps. Justin Amash and John Conyers (a Republican and a Democrat) wrote the amendment, intending to add it to the Defense Appropriations Bill and restrict the NSA from collecting metadata on Americans not under suspicion of terrorist activities.

Polls showed the idea -- depending on how you describe it -- playing incredibly well. Members of Congress read polls. With that in mind, and with other anti-NSA amendments in the offing, the agency actually met with select members of Congress to lobby them. Last night, the White House released a statement to "urge the House to reject the Amash Amendment, and instead move forward with an approach that appropriately takes into account the need for a reasoned review of what tools can best secure the nation."

The amendment finally came up for debate early this evening. "They'll tell you there's no expectation of privacy in documents that are stored with a third party," said Amash, attempting to pre-empt his critics. "Tell that to the American people!"

For seven minutes, he paraded out a series of Republican and Democratic allies beseeching the Congress to geld the NSA. "We should be doing the balancing," said South Carolina Rep. Mick Mulvaney. "We were elected to do that. We should pass this amendment so we do the balancing, not people we don't know who we did not elect." Texas Rep. Ted Poe appealed to a revolutionary spirit: "No judge would every sign a general warrant, like the British did, allowing each home on the block to be searched."

All helpful stuff, but not as helpful as the endorsement of Wisconsin Rep. James Sensenbrenner. As chairman of the Judiciary Committee after 9/11, he helped pass then defend the PATRIOT Act. "This amendment does not stop the collection of data under Section 215," he said, "people suspected of involvement in a terrorist plot."

The opposition blew past all that. The current House Intelligence Chairman, Rep. Mike Rogers, accused the Amash-ites of ignorance. Had they been in the room, learning how the program worked? "So 14 different judges are wrong, and 800 cases are wrong?" Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann spent two and a half minutes attacking the amendment, insisting that "a false narrative has emerged that the federal government is taking in the content of the American people's emails."

"It's not true," said Bachmann, a fan of definitive statements. "It's not happening."

The anti-amendment side gave its closing remark time to Arkansas Rep. Tom Cotton, a freshman and Iraq War veteran who's being urged to run for U.S. Senate. Once again, more in sorrow than in anger, he wondered why the Amash side was so naive. "This program has stopped dozens of terrorist attacks," said Cotton. "That means it's saved thousands of American lives." Metadata was merely "an excel spreadsheet with five columns" -- brave soldiers collect this sort of data on thumb drives, on the battlefield.

"To find a needle in a haystack, you need a haystack," said Cotton -- paraphrasing Obama administration deputy attorney general James Cole. "This takes a leaf blower and blows away the entire haystack."

Most Republicans applauded Cotton when he finished -- then on to the vote. It was set up in a manner that would give them some cover back home. Kansas Rep. Mike Pompeo had offered a rival anti-NSA-looking amendment, which received little attention because it largely just reiterated current law. The House voted on that amendment first, passing it by a landslide.

Then came Amash's language. In just three minutes, it went straight down -- 217 members voted against it, and 205 voted for it. Most Republicans who voted went against Amash, 134-94. Most Democrats went with Amash, and Conyers, on a 111-83 vote. Had seven members of any party switched their votes, the amendment would have been adopted. But the Speaker of the House wanted this sucker to go down. He voted against it, something he doesn't have to do unless a bill's in trouble, and as the vote came in he could be heard saying "I like all those 'no' votes!"
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Psyko Tek View Post
you're just trolling ain't you?
No, just spreading the word about a pretty impressive guy.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:00 PM   #17
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Direckshun thread based on lies. Ignore (like every other Direckshun thread).
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
BTW, BRC, what whacko leftwing website did you get this list from?
  • The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom

    This was something he said a long time ago... when he was a student... when the internet was much less developed. This isn't something he said about the internet of today.
  • He wants to end medicare

    You don't know what you're talking about. This is how I know you got this list from a shill site.
  • turn Social Secuity into a vocher program

    I don't know anything about this. More than likely, you don't either.
  • Public schools into a voucher program

    This is a mainstream conservative position that is popular with regular people. If anything, it would help him become President.
  • Outlaw abortion even in cases of rape and insest

    He's pro-life. Shocker. I don't know where he stands on the exceptions, but either way, it doesn't make him a nut job. It just makes him one of the millions of people who are pro-life in this country.
  • The recent 100% cuts of food stamps didn't go far enough

    You'd better have your shill site check their math. That doesn't make sense.
  • Voted against disaster aid for other states. Voted for his state to receive aid.

    Shill sites take votes out of context to fool people like you.
  • Terrorists have reached their target under Obama better than under Bush

    True. Tom Cotton would fix that.
  • Voted against renewing violence against women act.

    Good. We already have laws prohibiting violence against women. We don't need a slush fund for leftwing groups that profit from it.
Medicare and Social Security are from the Ryan budget that he voted for.

He said 100% didn't go far enough. Google it

the rest you agree he said or believes or you think is a good idea.

He will never, ever be president. Way too far right for a nation that votes the center in Presidential elections.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Medicare and Social Security are from the Ryan budget that he voted for.

He said 100% didn't go far enough. Google it

the rest you agree he said or believes or you think is a good idea.

He will never, ever be president. Way too far right for a nation that votes the center in Presidential elections.
The Ryan budget didn't end medicare and it didn't change social security into a voucher program.

As for googling the food stamps issue, I did, he didn't.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
BTW, BRC, what whacko leftwing website did you get this list from?
The internet has no value in teaching in the classroom

This was something he said a long time ago... when he was a student... when the internet was much less developed. This isn't something he said about the internet of today.
You know, your defense on this point isn't really helping him.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:56 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You know, your defense on this point isn't really helping him.
Why not?
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:01 AM   #22
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Why not?
The internet has had a huge impact on the world and not recognizing its potential, even when it was "much less developed," isn't something I'd mention in someone's defense. Seems like the type of guy who, at the time, would have said that cars, TV and computers were just fads.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:00 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The internet has had a huge impact on the world and not recognizing its potential, even when it was "much less developed," isn't something I'd mention in someone's defense. Seems like the type of guy who, at the time, would have said that cars, TV and computers were just fads.
He didn't say it could never be useful for the college classroom and he didn't say it was a fad. And keep in mind that when he wrote this, there were still even questions about whether or not e-commerce could succeed. This took place around the time of the bursting of the dot-com bubble. His specific complaints about the idea were that information on the internet at the time was unreliable compared to the traditional published sources and that opportunities for wasting time (like ChiefsPlanet) were potential distractions.

A better analogy would be someone who says we shouldn't build a network of charging stations across the country so that we can all drive electric cars. Someday, electric cars might be all the rage and building a network of charging stations might make sense, but in their infancy, they're more curiosity than useful transportation.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He didn't say it could never be useful for the college classroom and he didn't say it was a fad. And keep in mind that when he wrote this, there were still even questions about whether or not e-commerce could succeed. This took place around the time of the bursting of the dot-com bubble. His specific complaints about the idea were that information on the internet at the time was unreliable compared to the traditional published sources and that opportunities for wasting time (like ChiefsPlanet) were potential distractions.

A better analogy would be someone who says we shouldn't build a network of charging stations across the country so that we can all drive electric cars. Someday, electric cars might be all the rage and building a network of charging stations might make sense, but in their infancy, they're more curiosity than useful transportation.
Nuance doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:05 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Nuance doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker.
Yep. And with respect to BRC's hit list, nuance doesn't fit on whatever fringe liberal site he copied it from.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:53 AM   #26
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His hard line stance on abortion alone, if accurate, would deny him the presidency.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
His hard line stance on abortion alone, if accurate, would deny him the presidency.
You think it would be more of a problem than Obama's support for infanticide through neglect in some live birth situations? You can't get much more hard line than that.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You think it would be more of a problem than Obama's support for infanticide through neglect in some live birth situations? You can't get much more hard line than that.
I'm just saying any hard line stance will likely be a death blow for any candidate toting that line. Same can be said for a democrat hard lining for gun control. JMO
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I'm just saying any hard line stance will likely be a death blow for any candidate toting that line. Same can be said for a democrat hard lining for gun control. JMO
Except that history tells us otherwise. For just one example, see Barack Obama.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #30
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