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View Poll Results: Who do you respect more as a leader?
Obama 15 30.00%
Putin 35 70.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-01-2013, 02:44 PM  
Frazod Frazod is offline
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Who do you respect more as a leader?

Obama or Putin?

Simple choice.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:11 PM   #76
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For what it's worth, scott free: being a cautious statesmen is actually being a leader.

Obama, and every President in our lifetime, has been at least some version of that to varying degrees. Putin does not, and doesn't seem capable of being able to.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:11 PM   #77
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I do not consider either Chicago thug tactics nor KGB tactics as leadership. I honestly view both men as pretty much the same. With the exception that I could envision Putin doing actuall dirty work back in the day. Obama strikes me as the type who would rather pass it on.

But either way, I do not view either as a legit leader. Striking fear and division into the minds of people is not leadership.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:13 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Sorry, I didn't create the thread. Here's a concrete hypothetical for you to help you resolve your thoughts.

Given: In your opinion the US absolutely cannot tolerate an Iranian nuclear weapon. You have either Obama or Putin in charge and they've publicly declared that an Iranian nuclear weapon is unacceptable. You don't have to worry about how either man would impact the country in any way beyond that crisis.

Which guy do you want in charge making decisions wrt the Iranian situation? Which guy to you believe really means it when he draws a red line?
Putin doesn't give a shit about nuclear weapons in Iran unless he can make money off of it.

Obama will employ, at the very, very least, sanctions (with the rest of the international community), terrorism (with Israel), and potentially some two-party diplomacy by the end of his second term in order to prevent it.

Yeah. Putin's clearly superior. Round 2 goes to patteeu.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:15 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You heard it here first, folks.

When two heads of state want the same thing, and sign a treaty to make it happen, one is a "winner," and another is a "loser."

Game set match, patteeu. I clearly never had a chance.
This was a specific treaty, not just "a treaty". Is it your opinion that any negotiated settlement is a win/win, no matter how the two sides end up? Of course not. If you have two good leaders who are both looking out for the interests of those they lead and who have relatively equal leverage, the chances of a win/win are great. If one side has a really bad leader or if he isn't really looking out for the interests of those he leads or if he has a terrible hand of cards dealt to him relative to the other, it can certainly be a win/lose result. Unfortunately, that arms control treaty falls into the latter category and we came out on the "lose" end.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:16 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Putin doesn't give a shit about nuclear weapons in Iran unless he can make money off of it.

Obama will employ, at the very, very least, sanctions (with the rest of the international community), terrorism (with Israel), and potentially some two-party diplomacy by the end of his second term in order to prevent it.

Yeah. Putin's clearly superior. Round 2 goes to patteeu.
OK, don't ever ask me to be more concrete again if you're going to weasel your way around the point like this.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:16 PM   #81
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This is great. If the thread hits 100 posts I win a free Dick Cheney shot glass.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If you have two good leaders who are both looking out for the interests of those they lead and who have relatively equal leverage, the chances of a win/win are great. If one side has a really bad leader or if he isn't really looking out for the interests of those he leads or if he has a terrible hand of cards dealt to him relative to the other, it can certainly be a win/lose result.
False dichotomy.

This is a grossly simplistic way to categorize treaty negotiations.

Honestly, the START Treaty (I think that's what it was called) fits neither description terribly well.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:18 PM   #83
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
OK, don't ever ask me to be more concrete again if you're going to weasel your way around the point like this.
Tell me anything I posted was wrong, there. I want you to tell me a single thing I said in that post that was wrong.

(a.) Putin doesn't give a shit about nuclear weapons in Iran unless he can make money off of it.

(b.) Obama will employ, at the very, very least, sanctions (with the rest of the international community), terrorism (with Israel), and potentially some two-party diplomacy by the end of his second term in order to prevent it.

Tell me either (a.) or (b.) are wrong.

Then tell me (a.) is a better example of leadership than (b.).

Because that's the only way you're using Iran's nuclear ambition as some sort of win for Putin's leadership skills over Obama.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:19 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Those polls have no bearing on this issue. This isn't a popularity contest, it's a question of whether or not foreign governments look to the US for leadership. To the extent that they have during the Obama administration, they've been sorely disappointed with the result.
So "confidence"= popularity and not "faith in ability" now.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
How does that take balls?
I didnt say they were good balls.

Agree with me on this thing or that or not... but atleast half of america doesnt like Obamas foreign policy at all, to many, he comes off as ineffectual at best, weak at worst.

There IS a difference between being liked and respected.

And i really did love that he beat Romney, rubbed it right in some co-workers noses... but i'm at where i'm at with him, just dont trust him.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #86
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
How does that take balls?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
I didnt say they were good balls.


Again, words fail.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:22 PM   #87
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
There IS a difference between being liked and respected.
How about feared and respected?
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:23 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
JFC

If Obama did that you mother****ers would beat off to an impeachment trial and public gibbeting until your dicks fell off.
It's meant to illustrate the difference between the two.

Obama risked his assets on an assault on the compound to mitigate any risk to noncombatants who were, ostensibly, there on their own volition instead of just leveling the place whereas Putin gassed terrorist and hostage alike to mitigate the risk to his assets before calling for an assault, with the calculated threat to killing innocents with the gas would serve as a measure of an acceptable loss while showing the Chechens he's not to be ****ed with.

Either way it shows the difference in mindset. Comparing what Obama chose to do with Bengazi with what Putin would've done would be a better scenario.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
How about feared and respected?
Not the same at all, i believe DeNiro explained it best to his son in A Bronx Tale.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #90
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Yeah, Libya. That's clearly another area where Putin bests Obama.

Obama neutered Qaddafi's military and allowed Libya to overthrow him and establish a path toward democracy, creating America's relatively vast popularity in Libya.

Putin -- ???

Point clearly goes to Putin. Amiright?
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