Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2013, 02:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23772
Risking a budget shutdown or debt ceiling collapse to defund Obamacare is stupid.

So says the now-flaming-liberal Charles Krauthammer:

Quote:
Led by Sens. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, the GOP insurgents are threatening to shut down the government on Oct. 1 if the stopgap funding bill contains money for Obamacare.

This is nuts. The president will never sign a bill defunding the singular achievement of his presidency. Especially when he has control of the Senate. Especially when, though a narrow 51 percent majority of Americans disapproves of Obamacare, only 36 percent favors repeal. President Obama so knows he’ll win any shutdown showdown that he’s practically goading the Republicans into trying.

Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver. Every fiscal showdown has redounded against the Republicans. The first, in 1995, effectively marked the end of the Gingrich revolution. The latest, last December, led to a last-minute Republican cave that humiliated the GOP and did nothing to stop the tax hike it so strongly opposed.

Those who fancy themselves tea party patriots fighting a sold-out cocktail-swilling establishment are demanding yet another cliff dive as a show of principle and manliness.

But there’s no principle at stake here. This is about tactics. If I thought this would work, I would support it. But I don’t fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal.

As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. Nothing could better revive the fortunes of a failing, flailing, fading Democratic administration than a government shutdown where the president is portrayed as standing up to the GOP on honoring our debts and paying our soldiers in the field.

How many times must we learn the lesson? You can’t govern from one house of Congress. You need to win back the Senate and then the presidency. Shutting down the government is the worst possible way to get there. Indeed, it’s Obama’s fondest hope for a Democratic recovery.
Is there a single soul on this board that thinks the Republican Party's plan to once again threaten a fiscal disaster to get Democrats and Obama to defund the ACA is a good idea?

Seriously, I'm asking. Is there a single person on this board that thinks this is a good idea in any way.
Posts: 46,872
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23772
Ezra Klein takes Krauthammer's thoughts and further drives the spike in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...top-obamacare/

The GOP’s kamikaze mission to stop Obamacare
By Ezra Klein
Published: August 2 at 2:41 pm

The campaign against Obamacare began as a campaign for self-interest. Obamacare, conservatives promised, would raise your taxes, take away your doctor and possibly put you in front of a death panel. The fight to keep it from passing was a fight to keep bad things from happening.

But the effort has devolved into something much weirder: A campaign of self-sacrifice. The current crop of Republican strategies ask conservative congressmen to hurt their constituents and their political prospects, conservative governors to hurt their states, and conservative activists to hurt themselves. It’s a kamikaze mission to stop Obamacare.

Take Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio’s effort to shut down the federal government unless the Obama administration agrees to defund its signature piece of legislation. If they managed to gather enough support to make good on the threat, the result would be a painful government shutdown that the public would — rightly — blame entirely on the Republican Party. They would’ve hurt their constituents and their chances of retaking the Senate majority in 2014.

“If I thought this would work, I would support it,” writes my colleague Charles Krauthammer. “But I don’t fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal.”

In the states, Republican governors are saying no to billions of dollars in Medicaid money (and, in a number of cases where they said “yes,” their even-more conservative legislatures have said “no” on their behalf). That cuts them off from much-needed funds and cuts their poorest constituents off from free heath insurance. Moreover, it means their safety-net hospitals lose money they were relying on to survive — forcing devastating cuts to care. The result is a poorer state, worse-off residents and a health system under terrible financial stress. But at least they’ve taken a stand against Obamacare!

Then there’s the emergent campaign to persuade conservatives (and everyone else) to doom Obamacare by refusing to accept its offer of free or subsidized health insurance and instead pay the fine and go without coverage. The organizers, who Sarah Kliff interviewed here, realize they can’t argue that no health insurance is better than free health insurance. So they’re falling back on classic welfare-shaming strategies. “I like that there is still a stigma [around Medicaid],” said Abigail Nobel, a Michigan Tea Party activist.

The campaign will likely fail to make a dent with the broader public. But it might be convincing to some hardcore conservative activists, who will go without health coverage they otherwise would have had. And then some of them will get sick, or hurt — and then what?

Over the past couple of years, Republicans have responded to minority status by adopting more extreme political tactics. Chief among them is hostage taking: threatening to shut down the government, or breach the debt ceiling, if they don’t get their way.

But now Republicans have taken themselves hostage. They’re threatening to hurt themselves and their states and their voters and their most committed activists if Democrats don’t give them their way on Obamacare. It’s evidence of their extraordinary dedication to the cause, but also to their increasingly extreme view of how American politics works.

But behind all of it is a mounting desperation. Obamacare beat a filibuster. It beat the right’s legal challenge. Its namesake beat the Republican Party’s nominee for president. Come 2014, it will start helping millions of Americans afford health insurance, and come the 2016 election it will have been delivering health care to tens of millions of Americans for almost three years. That’s not the kind of program that just goes away in American politics.

And so Republicans are desperate to stop it from going into effect in October, and from working smoothly after that. But desperation doesn’t always lead to good strategies.
__________________
Posts: 46,872
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 02:54 PM   #3
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $28016
I do not think this is a good idea. There has been a democratic process by which the legislation was passed to TRY Obama care.

By doing all of these shady ass things to NOT AT LEAST TRY to set it up and give it a chance to work, even for a couple of years , is a form of subverting the democratic process we all are supposed to respect.

This is making a mockery of the process and only will lead to further inability to form bi-partisan coalitions to get things done.

To me it is completely insane, and I am pretty far from a liberal....if you know me at all.

I don't often agree with Direck but to me this is a simple matter:

we have to at least TRY to get the exchanges up and running and give Obamacare a chance to work before we start defunding it and deeming it a failure...otherwise it isnt Obamacare that has failed.
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 17,011
Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 03:52 PM   #4
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
It's not the Republican party's plan any more than it's the democrat party's plan to install Sheila Jackson Lee as the new DHS Secretary.

It's definitely politically stupid. The people who cause it to be politically stupid (people who would blame a government shutdown on Republicans even though they oppose Obamacare) are stupid too.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 04:47 PM   #5
alpha_omega alpha_omega is offline
MVP
 
alpha_omega's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liberty
Casino cash: $9996
Quote:
By Ezra Klein
Ezra has a lot to say today, huh?
Posts: 7,020
alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.alpha_omega wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 04:53 PM   #6
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
Administrator
 
AustinChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Austin
Casino cash: $11931
No one is seriously threatening a shutdown over Obamacare. This is a high profile way to establish Cruz and Rubio as two of the leading anti-Obamacare guys. It's a risky but potentially very lucrative position to take. If Obamacare falls completely flat on its face they stand to gather quite a bit of political clout by being the "I told you so" guys. Of course, if it miraculously doesn't completely suck then it bites them in the ass.
Posts: 15,238
AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.AustinChief has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #7
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $22995
Barf!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I do not think this is a good idea. There has been a democratic process by which the legislation was passed to TRY Obama care.
If this is your argument, then ACA law lacked a funding mechanism for the exchanges too. Thus the House is not required to fund it. The states were to do this, and too many have refused. If those aren't funded the act fails.

The House has the power of the purse and should have done this before for all of it. This is how the Vietnam war ended, the Democrats refused any further funding and it pissed of Nixon and Kissinger.

But let's face it, if you really are going to use this argument that the democratic process put ACA into law—it only did so through fraud and trickery. It never originated in the House where all revenue bills must originate. Reid took another House bill and scrapped the contents to put what is known as ACA in it's place. That's one helluva hoax for calling this the democratic process.

When it went to the SC it was argued on the grounds of commerce on the mandate—not on it being a violation of the origination clause.

It's media spin to call it a bad move. That's for the left. The bill is unpopular. Too many waivers for it have been granted violating equal protection of the laws.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,786
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 04:57 PM   #8
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $22995
Oh and the Gingrich revolution? There never was one. Spin.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,786
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #9
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $22219
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
When it went to the SC it was argued on the grounds of commerce on the mandate—not on it being a violation of the origination clause.
Because it wasn't a violation of the origination clause.
Posts: 20,489
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #10
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
The bitch is BACK!
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $23005
The Left tried to recall Scott Walker in Wisconsin, so they shoudln't be surprised people are trying to undo Obamacare.
__________________
"NFL home field advantage isnt worth 3 points. It's worth about 1/2 a point." - Saul Good 10/30/13
Posts: 15,968
Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.Prison Bitch 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 05:16 PM   #11
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $7982
So...the left is pissed that these Republicans are trying to defund ACA...the very thing so many Democrats are now trying to distance themselves from because it's gonna be an admitted "trainwreck"? I would think they would be sitting silent and letting these guys do exactly that...and then bitch later how the Republicans killed the best thing that's been coming down the pike in 50 years.
Posts: 4,298
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 05:55 PM   #12
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $16371
ObamaCare should be implemented on schedule with no delays. None. Watch this ****er come apart at the seams. Anyone who opposes it should be boiled in oil. There has not been better entertainment since the opening night of Roots. Rock on....
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 29,851
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 06:32 PM   #13
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23772
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It's not the Republican party's plan any more than it's the democrat party's plan to install Sheila Jackson Lee as the new DHS Secretary.

It's definitely politically stupid. The people who cause it to be politically stupid (people who would blame a government shutdown on Republicans even though they oppose Obamacare) are stupid too.
Shutting down the government to oppose Obamacare is basically the dictionary definition of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
__________________
Posts: 46,872
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 06:41 PM   #14
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Shutting down the government to oppose Obamacare is basically the dictionary definition of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
They wouldn't be shutting down the government to oppose Obamacare. Obama (or more likely, Harry Reid) would be shutting down the government because they don't like the budget resolution that doesn't fund Obamacare. That's why I say that the people who make this politically stupid are stupid themselves.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23772
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_omega View Post
Ezra has a lot to say today, huh?
He's an excellent commentator. One of several that are worth reading daily.
__________________
Posts: 46,872
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:21 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.