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Old 08-02-2013, 02:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Risking a budget shutdown or debt ceiling collapse to defund Obamacare is stupid.

So says the now-flaming-liberal Charles Krauthammer:

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Led by Sens. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, the GOP insurgents are threatening to shut down the government on Oct. 1 if the stopgap funding bill contains money for Obamacare.

This is nuts. The president will never sign a bill defunding the singular achievement of his presidency. Especially when he has control of the Senate. Especially when, though a narrow 51 percent majority of Americans disapproves of Obamacare, only 36 percent favors repeal. President Obama so knows he’ll win any shutdown showdown that he’s practically goading the Republicans into trying.

Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver. Every fiscal showdown has redounded against the Republicans. The first, in 1995, effectively marked the end of the Gingrich revolution. The latest, last December, led to a last-minute Republican cave that humiliated the GOP and did nothing to stop the tax hike it so strongly opposed.

Those who fancy themselves tea party patriots fighting a sold-out cocktail-swilling establishment are demanding yet another cliff dive as a show of principle and manliness.

But there’s no principle at stake here. This is about tactics. If I thought this would work, I would support it. But I don’t fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal.

As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. Nothing could better revive the fortunes of a failing, flailing, fading Democratic administration than a government shutdown where the president is portrayed as standing up to the GOP on honoring our debts and paying our soldiers in the field.

How many times must we learn the lesson? You can’t govern from one house of Congress. You need to win back the Senate and then the presidency. Shutting down the government is the worst possible way to get there. Indeed, it’s Obama’s fondest hope for a Democratic recovery.
Is there a single soul on this board that thinks the Republican Party's plan to once again threaten a fiscal disaster to get Democrats and Obama to defund the ACA is a good idea?

Seriously, I'm asking. Is there a single person on this board that thinks this is a good idea in any way.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #31
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
You're probably right. But does it make sense for republicans to go on record saying they tried to appeal it before the inevitable train wreck that is a out to happen actually happens?

I think so.
It's not repealing it though. Defunding it just means it attaches a legislative rider. It prevents further implementation.

Furthermore, for those who claim Rs lost seats when Clinton shut the govt down in 1995, the Republicans still retained their majority with a popular president of another party in the WH. It did not hurt them. It was a political failure to most pundits in Wash DC."And their willingness to not accept all of Clinton’s demands was crucial towards eventually balancing the budget and reforming welfare." Meanwhile, the left steals the credit by claiming Clinton had a "surplus." Not everyone is so fooled.

Same Heritage Action link.

Get on the phone and call your representative, conservatives et al.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #32
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So says the now-flaming-liberal Charles Krauthammer:
Well of course he's a flaming liberal—just a flaming liberal hawk who boasts about American being an empire.He's a classic example of a NeoCon and pro-Establishment big govt. Remember, he was Walter Mondale's speech writer.

I just love how your article calls the Conservatives in Congress "insurgents." Lol, that's what we call people in countries we invade when they fight to get the enemy out of their country. Total Establishment thinking. That's code for status quo.


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Is there a single soul on this board that thinks the Republican Party's plan to once again threaten a fiscal disaster to get Democrats and Obama to defund the ACA is a good idea?

Seriously, I'm asking. Is there a single person on this board that thinks this is a good idea in any way.
Me
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #33
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Wait a minute. Who is saying that a federal government shut down is a bad thing?
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Wait a minute. Who is saying that a federal government shut down is a bad thing?
I think the question is whether or not it's a bad thing politically for Republicans.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:25 PM   #35
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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They wouldn't be shutting down the government to oppose Obamacare. Obama (or more likely, Harry Reid) would be shutting down the government because they don't like the budget resolution that doesn't fund Obamacare. That's why I say that the people who make this politically stupid are stupid themselves.
Thats some weird logic there. If you don't give us what we want we are going to blow up the USA's economy.

And if you don't give us what we want, its your fault because you didn't like what we wanted?
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #36
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think the question is whether or not it's a bad thing politically for Republicans.
Well, I mean it would be bad for politicians in general since the people will find out that the federal government is shut down and yet the sky is not falling.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Thats some weird logic there. If you don't give us what we want we are going to blow up the USA's economy.

And if you don't give us what we want, its your fault because you didn't like what we wanted?
Which is totally reciprocal.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #38
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Thats some weird logic there. If you don't give us what we want we are going to blow up the USA's economy.

And if you don't give us what we want, its your fault because you didn't like what we wanted?
That's not the logic. The logic is that the guy who prevents the essential functions of government from being funded is the guy who shut the government down. If Obama vetoes a bill that funds the entire government except his pet project, he's the guy shutting government down.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:50 PM   #39
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Well, I mean it would be bad for politicians in general since the people will find out that the federal government is shut down and yet the sky is not falling.
Haha. But I'm afraid that liberals have been successful enough at spreading the dependency around, that might not be true anymore.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:56 PM   #40
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Haha. But I'm afraid that liberals have been successful enough at spreading the dependency around, that might not be true anymore.
Bush didn't help that by any means. But time and reality isn't something the progressive agenda can avoid. Their shell game will eventually be exposed.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:01 PM   #41
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
ObamaCare should be implemented on schedule with no delays.
This is an acceptable position...if it fails, so be it...Then throw out anyone in charge of it etc...hold accountable the people who made it happen etc...

But to derail it BEFORE it even gets off the ground is not acceptable.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #42
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Thats some weird logic there. If you don't give us what we want we are going to blow up the USA's economy.
Actually, if the govt shut down the economy would probably do better. Perhaps even boom! A shut down doesn't shut everything down.

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And if you don't give us what we want, its your fault because you didn't like what we wanted?
Pretty much what the Ds did ram-rodding Obamacare down everyone's throats, with trickery no less. The amount of projection going on is simply amazing. I think we should all pitch in for a giant mirror to hang up in DC.

Now please explain to me why left-wing unions don't want it too? More and more are discovering they don't want it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:08 PM   #43
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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This is an acceptable position...if it fails, so be it...Then throw out anyone in charge of it etc...hold accountable the people who made it happen etc...

But to derail it BEFORE it even gets off the ground is not acceptable.
The problem with your position is that once this stuff gets in the system—it is never taken out! No matter how disliked it is. Or it's extremely rare, like Prohibition.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:41 AM   #44
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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The problem with your position is that once this stuff gets in the system—it is never taken out! No matter how disliked it is. Or it's extremely rare, like Prohibition.
Well the problem with your position is that it is counterproductive. Think about the next legislation that you support...why in the world would the other side respect YOUR legislation and try to work within a democratic process if you continually sabotage , derail, and disrupt a legally created program.

I mean..i get it...you oppose this.

But throwing temper tantrums and taking all your toys home when the game doesnt go your way are the actions of a two year old.

We need to show more respect to the other sides in this country, and work together.
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:39 AM   #45
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I do not think this is a good idea. There has been a democratic process by which the legislation was passed to TRY Obama care.

By doing all of these shady ass things to NOT AT LEAST TRY to set it up and give it a chance to work, even for a couple of years , is a form of subverting the democratic process we all are supposed to respect.

This is making a mockery of the process and only will lead to further inability to form bi-partisan coalitions to get things done.

To me it is completely insane, and I am pretty far from a liberal....if you know me at all.

I don't often agree with Direck but to me this is a simple matter:

we have to at least TRY to get the exchanges up and running and give Obamacare a chance to work before we start defunding it and deeming it a failure...otherwise it isnt Obamacare that has failed.
This is one of the reasons why we largely have a failed state. Excellent points.
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