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Old 08-02-2013, 01:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Risking a budget shutdown or debt ceiling collapse to defund Obamacare is stupid.

So says the now-flaming-liberal Charles Krauthammer:

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Led by Sens. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, the GOP insurgents are threatening to shut down the government on Oct. 1 if the stopgap funding bill contains money for Obamacare.

This is nuts. The president will never sign a bill defunding the singular achievement of his presidency. Especially when he has control of the Senate. Especially when, though a narrow 51 percent majority of Americans disapproves of Obamacare, only 36 percent favors repeal. President Obama so knows he’ll win any shutdown showdown that he’s practically goading the Republicans into trying.

Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver. Every fiscal showdown has redounded against the Republicans. The first, in 1995, effectively marked the end of the Gingrich revolution. The latest, last December, led to a last-minute Republican cave that humiliated the GOP and did nothing to stop the tax hike it so strongly opposed.

Those who fancy themselves tea party patriots fighting a sold-out cocktail-swilling establishment are demanding yet another cliff dive as a show of principle and manliness.

But there’s no principle at stake here. This is about tactics. If I thought this would work, I would support it. But I don’t fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal.

As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. Nothing could better revive the fortunes of a failing, flailing, fading Democratic administration than a government shutdown where the president is portrayed as standing up to the GOP on honoring our debts and paying our soldiers in the field.

How many times must we learn the lesson? You can’t govern from one house of Congress. You need to win back the Senate and then the presidency. Shutting down the government is the worst possible way to get there. Indeed, it’s Obama’s fondest hope for a Democratic recovery.
Is there a single soul on this board that thinks the Republican Party's plan to once again threaten a fiscal disaster to get Democrats and Obama to defund the ACA is a good idea?

Seriously, I'm asking. Is there a single person on this board that thinks this is a good idea in any way.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:44 AM   #46
stevieray stevieray is offline
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...passing a bill it to know what is in iit is a million miles away from the Democratic process.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:38 AM   #47
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Wait a minute. Who is saying that a federal government shut down is a bad thing?
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:42 AM   #48
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Haha. But I'm afraid that liberals have been successful enough at spreading the dependency around, that might not be true anymore.
Please don't put everyone that doesn't have the same political approach in the same minimizing box.

I don't believe in dependency. I believe there should be a limit on the amount and time you are allowed receive aid from the taxpayer. Hand up not hand out philosophy.

I paid for my education without a single penny of government aid. My son is going to get his graduate degree in Engineering, Masters in Physics and a Phd in Astrophysics. We have no plans to take one penny of government aid for that education either.

I've always been a pull yourself by your own bootstraps kind of guy. Some people need a more help to get on their feet than others. We as a society should help our fellow man get on their feet. It makes us better as human beings and as a society.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:50 AM   #49
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Please don't put everyone that doesn't have the same political approach in the same minimizing box.

I don't believe in dependency. I believe there should be a limit on the amount and time you are allowed receive aid from the taxpayer. Hand up not hand out philosophy.

I paid for my education without a single penny of government aid. My son is going to get his graduate degree in Engineering, Masters in Physics and a Phd in Astrophysics. We have no plans to take one penny of government aid for that education either.

I've always been a pull yourself by your own bootstraps kind of guy. Some people need a more help to get on their feet than others. We as a society should help our fellow man get on their feet. It makes us better as human beings and as a society.
90 percent of people who receive help from the government are retired, disabled or members of working households, not able bodied Americans refusing to work and depending on the government.

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Old 08-03-2013, 07:57 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
90 percent of people who receive help from the government are retired, disabled or members of working households, not able bodied Americans refusing to work and depending on the government.
Incorrect. I'd put the number closer to 0%. Even Mr. Pull Yourself Up By Your Bootstraps BigRedChief was taking government handouts to buy a new car just a few years ago. And think about all the people who receive a tax subsidy for their home mortgage interest. That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the welfare/dependency state. It doesn't make these people bad people, it makes our system a corrupted and corrupting system.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:58 AM   #51
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Nothing to worry about, it's all under control. Seventy straight days of no change in the Federal deficit.

70 Straight Days: Treasury Says Debt Stuck at Exactly $16,699,396,000,000.00
July 29, 2013 – 5:21 PM
By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) – According to the Daily Treasury Statement for July 26, which the Treasury released this afternoon, the federal debt has been stuck at exactly $16,699,396,000,000.00 for 70 straight days.

That is approximately $25 million below the legal limit of $16,699,421,095,673.60 that Congress has imposed on the debt.

The portion of the federal debt subject to the legal limit set by Congress first hit $16,699,396,000,000.00 at the close of business on May 17. At the close of every business day since then, it has also been $16,699,396,000,000.00, according to the official accounting published by the Treasury Department.

If the debt had increased by even $30 million at any time during those 70 days, it would have exceeded the statutory limit. But, according to the Treasury, the debt did not do that. Instead, it remained precisely $16,699,396,000,000.00.

Even though the government’s official accounting of the debt has not budged for 70 days, the Treasury has continued to sell bills, notes and bonds at a value that exceeds the value of the bills, notes and bonds it was redeeming.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:09 AM   #52
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Incorrect. I'd put the number closer to 0%. Even Mr. Pull Yourself Up By Your Bootstraps BigRedChief was taking government handouts to buy a new car just a few years ago. And think about all the people who receive a tax subsidy for their home mortgage interest. That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the welfare/dependency state. It doesn't make these people bad people, it makes our system a corrupted and corrupting system.
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Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:08 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Ezra Klein takes Krauthammer's thoughts and further drives the spike in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...top-obamacare/

The GOP’s kamikaze mission to stop Obamacare
By Ezra Klein
Published: August 2 at 2:41 pm
Who the **** cares what Ezra Klein has to say? I don't favor this strategy, but nothing Ezra Klein has to say on it matters much to me. If I wanted to listen to a White House poodle barking, I'd tune into Rachel Maddow.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:35 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
My mistake. I misread your post. Your link supports what both of us said.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:48 PM   #55
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We need Obamacare immediately.


If they delay it how many more children are going to die?!
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:10 PM   #56
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I do not think this is a good idea. There has been a democratic process by which the legislation was passed to TRY Obama care.

By doing all of these shady ass things to NOT AT LEAST TRY to set it up and give it a chance to work, even for a couple of years , is a form of subverting the democratic process we all are supposed to respect.

This is making a mockery of the process and only will lead to further inability to form bi-partisan coalitions to get things done.

To me it is completely insane, and I am pretty far from a liberal....if you know me at all.

I don't often agree with Direck but to me this is a simple matter:

we have to at least TRY to get the exchanges up and running and give Obamacare a chance to work before we start defunding it and deeming it a failure...otherwise it isnt Obamacare that has failed.
That's stupid. If someone cuts you, do you not try to stop the bleeding? And as far as 'seeing if it will work', not only do I not have to stick my head in an ass to know it stinks, but it is already a disastrous trainwreck.

As for the OP, that's just more stupid and false projections, per the norm for the poster. Defunding Obamacare at a min has to happen or it will hurt this country, badly.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:35 PM   #57
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
That's stupid......

As for the OP, that's just more stupid ....

Awesome...

Well have fun getting anything accomplished ever in life.....

I don't know about your reality, but in mine life is complex.....if you go around taking revenge every time you lose a battle, and being a douche bag sore loser you get absolutely nothing accomplished.

But hey keep trying this failed strategy thats been going on now since 1992. Ask yourself:

what has it done for the country?

what has it done for republicans?

what has it done for conservatives (like me)?


The answer (since you are clearly too ****ing dumb to know) is that the country is falling apart, the republican party is in shambles barely hanging on by gerrymandering...with no hopes of ever regaining any kind of leadership at present....and the conservatives are split and divided.

Refusing to acknowledge your losses and work with people on the other side is a complete failure. Not even trying to implement Romney-Bamacare ( a conservative plan) nation wide , even though it was voted in is foolish.

You are thinking extremely short term. Even if Obamacare would be a failure (which it might be) wouldnt it be better to watch it fail and be able to PROVE it was bad than try for 4 years to derail it....and defund it....and allow people to think it is your fault for not allowing it to happen?

Its a terrible strategy long term for the nation, and for the republican party / conservatives.

But go ahead and call me stupid a few more times....that will solve things.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:40 PM   #58
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Even Mr. Pull Yourself Up By Your Bootstraps BigRedChief was taking government handouts to buy a new car just a few years ago. .
So a tax break is now a government handout? Have you told your corporate buddies about this position?
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:45 PM   #59
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Awesome...

Well have fun getting anything accomplished ever in life.....

I don't know about your reality, but in mine life is complex.....if you go around taking revenge every time you lose a battle, and being a douche bag sore loser you get absolutely nothing accomplished.

But hey keep trying this failed strategy thats been going on now since 1992. Ask yourself:

what has it done for the country?

what has it done for republicans?

what has it done for conservatives (like me)?


The answer (since you are clearly too ****ing dumb to know) is that the country is falling apart, the republican party is in shambles barely hanging on by gerrymandering...with no hopes of ever regaining any kind of leadership at present....and the conservatives are split and divided.

Refusing to acknowledge your losses and work with people on the other side is a complete failure. Not even trying to implement Romney-Bamacare ( a conservative plan) nation wide , even though it was voted in is foolish.

You are thinking extremely short term. Even if Obamacare would be a failure (which it might be) wouldnt it be better to watch it fail and be able to PROVE it was bad than try for 4 years to derail it....and defund it....and allow people to think it is your fault for not allowing it to happen?

Its a terrible strategy long term for the nation, and for the republican party / conservatives.

But go ahead and call me stupid a few more times....that will solve things.
I think they have labeled you Direckson like in your views. They are not paying attention.

The Republicans are in a demographic death spiral. Even gerrymandering won't save them soon. Keep insinuating or comparing Latinos to dogs. Saying something really offensive to Latinos and its only going to speed up the death spiral.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #60
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I would be ok with a government shut down if they could use the issue to force congress to have to actually USE Obamacare instead of being exempt from it.
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