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Old 08-02-2013, 01:50 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Risking a budget shutdown or debt ceiling collapse to defund Obamacare is stupid.

So says the now-flaming-liberal Charles Krauthammer:

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Led by Sens. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, the GOP insurgents are threatening to shut down the government on Oct. 1 if the stopgap funding bill contains money for Obamacare.

This is nuts. The president will never sign a bill defunding the singular achievement of his presidency. Especially when he has control of the Senate. Especially when, though a narrow 51 percent majority of Americans disapproves of Obamacare, only 36 percent favors repeal. President Obama so knows heíll win any shutdown showdown that heís practically goading the Republicans into trying.

Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver. Every fiscal showdown has redounded against the Republicans. The first, in 1995, effectively marked the end of the Gingrich revolution. The latest, last December, led to a last-minute Republican cave that humiliated the GOP and did nothing to stop the tax hike it so strongly opposed.

Those who fancy themselves tea party patriots fighting a sold-out cocktail-swilling establishment are demanding yet another cliff dive as a show of principle and manliness.

But thereís no principle at stake here. This is about tactics. If I thought this would work, I would support it. But I donít fancy suicide. It has a tendency to be fatal.

As for manliness, the real question here is sanity. Nothing could better revive the fortunes of a failing, flailing, fading Democratic administration than a government shutdown where the president is portrayed as standing up to the GOP on honoring our debts and paying our soldiers in the field.

How many times must we learn the lesson? You canít govern from one house of Congress. You need to win back the Senate and then the presidency. Shutting down the government is the worst possible way to get there. Indeed, itís Obamaís fondest hope for a Democratic recovery.
Is there a single soul on this board that thinks the Republican Party's plan to once again threaten a fiscal disaster to get Democrats and Obama to defund the ACA is a good idea?

Seriously, I'm asking. Is there a single person on this board that thinks this is a good idea in any way.
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #61
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
They are not paying attention.
Pretty much...Obama care was a compromise....it isnt single payer, its much more like the Romney care plan in Mass.

Its not only republicans ...but right now they seem fairly unwilling to compromise on any issues....

My opinion is that this is not the right path...you have to make deals and try to make the best you can...why not try Obama care, and try to improve it and implement it fully for a few years?

At this point what could be possibly have to lose?

Rates are already skyrocketing and have been for decades. Doing nothing seems foolish....sometimes in chess there is a very appropriate saying:

A bad plan can be better than NO PLAN.

You can make corrections and fix a bad plan.....

Anyhow I really dont have much of a stake...I didnt vote for Obama...I dont think Obamacare will affect me one way or another, except I was hoping it would eventually slow the rate of price increases...or give some other options.....but I have decent health care already.

I just can't stand watching my country behave like a bunch of brats....intentionally wrecking the plans of the other side...out of spite. I think we should let the elections decide things....and then really try to work within the laws..and across the aisles..to do the best we can to make it a better country.

I know, I know...

Im 'stupid'
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:44 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So a tax break is now a government handout? Have you told your corporate buddies about this position?
It depends on what type of tax break. A large chunk of the corporate welfare that you complain about (not counting the fake stuff you come up with about oil companies) comes in the form of tax breaks. You're not changing your tune now, are you?

A "tax break" that's actually a part of calculating income is not a handout. For example, if you are a soccer referee and you deduct the cost of the referee outfit that you bought for yourself so you can do your job, it's not a handout. But if you get a deduction for home mortgage interest or for buying a hybrid car, it's a handout.

IMO, you're also getting a handout under the current progressive system if a switch to a flat tax would cause you to pay more in taxes.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
A large chunk of the corporate welfare that you complain about (not counting the fake stuff you come up with about oil companies)
FAKE STUFF? FAKE STUFF? Only in your own mind. The oil companies are getting BILLIONS of $'s in tax breaks for them and them alone. We the taxpayers are giving some of the most profitable companies in world tax $'s for what reason?
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You're not changing your tune now, are you?
No, I took advantage of a tax incentive/break to help sell cars when the American car industry was on the ropes. A hugely successful program that was an Obama idea.
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
But if you get a deduction for home mortgage interest or for buying a hybrid car, it's a handout.
I don't think the millions of home owners think they are getting a handout from the government. Your off the reservation again.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:35 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
FAKE STUFF? FAKE STUFF? Only in your own mind. The oil companies are getting BILLIONS of $'s in tax breaks for them and them alone. We the taxpayers are giving some of the most profitable companies in world tax $'s for what reason?
No, I took advantage of a tax incentive/break to help sell cars when the American car industry was on the ropes. A hugely successful program that was an Obama idea.
I don't think the millions of home owners think they are getting a handout from the government. Your off the reservation again.
If I remember right you bought a car from a US company that didn't require a bailout and wasn't on the ropes. You 1%'er you.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:30 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
FAKE STUFF? FAKE STUFF? Only in your own mind. The oil companies are getting BILLIONS of $'s in tax breaks for them and them alone. We the taxpayers are giving some of the most profitable companies in world tax $'s for what reason?
Right, fake stuff. Much of what you describe as subsidies for oil companies are the same tax deductions that every company is entitled to because it's a part of the income calculation (revenue minus expenses). That's a legitimate tax break, as opposed to the handout/tax break you took for your car.

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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
No, I took advantage of a tax incentive/break to help sell cars when the American car industry was on the ropes. A hugely successful program that was an Obama idea.
I'm sure the handout was successful for the BigRedChief family. It didn't do much for the auto industry though and it drove used car prices up on people who can't afford new cars.

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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I don't think the millions of home owners think they are getting a handout from the government. Your off the reservation again.
It doesn't matter what they think. You didn't think the government handout you took for that car was a handout either, but it was.

It's fascinating to me that you complain about handouts to oil companies that are the kinds of deductions for legitimate business expenses that all businesses are entitled to by virtue of the fact that we have an income tax instead of a revenue tax, but that you are blind to the tax handouts for personal consumption that you take.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It's fascinating to me that you complain about handouts to oil companies that are the kinds of deductions for legitimate business expenses that all businesses are entitled to by virtue of the fact that we have an income tax instead of a revenue tax, but that you are blind to the tax handouts for personal consumption that you take.
Really, it's better for the economy if the oil company is profitable because they employ people, run refineries, buy industrial goods which in turn employs others, etc etc.

A handout like cash for clunkers just enriches someone who was already fine and comfortable if they are in the position of looking for a brand new sportscar.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:10 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Really, it's better for the economy if the oil company is profitable because they employ people, run refineries, buy industrial goods which in turn employs others, etc etc.

A handout like cash for clunkers just enriches someone who was already fine and comfortable if they are in the position of looking for a brand new sportscar.
And cash for clunkers hurt young or poor people from buying an inexpensive car, because the old ones were crushed.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #68
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Nothing to worry about, it's all under control. Seventy straight days of no change in the Federal deficit.

70 Straight Days: Treasury Says Debt Stuck at Exactly $16,699,396,000,000.00
July 29, 2013 Ė 5:21 PM
By Terence P. Jeffrey

(CNSNews.com) Ė According to the Daily Treasury Statement for July 26, which the Treasury released this afternoon, the federal debt has been stuck at exactly $16,699,396,000,000.00 for 70 straight days.

That is approximately $25 million below the legal limit of $16,699,421,095,673.60 that Congress has imposed on the debt.

The portion of the federal debt subject to the legal limit set by Congress first hit $16,699,396,000,000.00 at the close of business on May 17. At the close of every business day since then, it has also been $16,699,396,000,000.00, according to the official accounting published by the Treasury Department.

If the debt had increased by even $30 million at any time during those 70 days, it would have exceeded the statutory limit. But, according to the Treasury, the debt did not do that. Instead, it remained precisely $16,699,396,000,000.00.

Even though the governmentís official accounting of the debt has not budged for 70 days, the Treasury has continued to sell bills, notes and bonds at a value that exceeds the value of the bills, notes and bonds it was redeeming.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #69
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:04 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
And cash for clunkers hurt young or poor people from buying an inexpensive car, because the old ones were crushed.
sure, there is a major shortage of pos cars for people to buy, not to mention you can buy a brand new car for 150 bucks a month.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:14 PM   #71
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sure, there is a major shortage of pos cars for people to buy, not to mention you can buy a brand new car for 150 bucks a month.
Not really familiar with basic economics, huh?
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Not really familiar with basic economics, huh?
I'm familiar with the car business.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #73
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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sure, there is a major shortage of pos cars for people to buy, not to mention you can buy a brand new car for 150 bucks a month.
Now—yes. But not after cash for clunkers. Economics 101. It was hard to find a decent used car afterwards. There were reports of this and it was my daughter's experience.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:08 PM   #74
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I'm familiar with the car business.
You are most familiar with your ass. Pull your head out of it.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:21 PM   #75
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You are most familiar with your ass. Pull your head out of it.
Oh look, it's hcf waving his babydick around again.
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