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Old 08-04-2013, 02:18 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Single payer would cover everyone, and save $2 trillion over 10 years.

So many of the complaints over the ACA by many of the conservatives would be put to rest, here.

Health insurance should be something that simply everybody has. The people in society who do not have insurance do not have it because they cannot afford it. It's that simple. Nobody wants to live without health insurance.

So if we agree on a couple basic things:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.

...then why not accept a basic plan that (a.) covers everybody that is (b.) as cheap as humanly possible?

The best option for that: single payer. Every American is covered. Premiums take less out of everyone's pocket. Nearly $2 trillion is saved, money that can go into a now-potentially-explosive economy.

Why are we not doing this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/july/%...year-new-study

‘Medicare for All’ would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all – at less cost to families and businesses
Mark Almberg, communications director
Posted on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Upgrading the nation’s Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

That’s the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.

Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care,” Friedman said.

His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicare’s 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedman’s full report, with tables and charts, is available here.

Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with today’s private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public system’s bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).

“These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care,” he said.

Friedman said the savings would also fund $51 billion in transition costs such as retraining displaced workers from the insurance industry and phasing out investor-owned, for-profit delivery systems.

Over the next decade, the system’s savings from reduced health inflation (“bending the cost curve”), thanks to cost-control methods such as negotiated fees, lump-sum payments to hospitals, and capital planning, would amount to an estimated $1.8 trillion.

“Paradoxically, by expanding Medicare to everyone we’d end up saving billions of dollars annually,” he said. “We’d be safeguarding Medicare’s fiscal integrity while enhancing the nation’s health for the long term.”

Friedman said the plan would be funded by maintaining current federal revenues for health care and imposing new, modest tax increases on very high income earners. It would also be funded by a small increase in payroll taxes on employers, who would no longer pay health insurance premiums, and a new, very small tax on stock and bond transactions.

“Such a financing scheme would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, restore free choice of physician, guarantee all necessary medical care, improve patient health and, because it would be financed by a program of progressive taxation, result in 95 percent of all U.S. households saving money,” Friedman said.

Friedman’s findings are consistent with other research showing large savings from a single-payer plan. Single-payer fiscal studies by other economists, such as Kenneth E. Thorpe (2005), have arrived at similar conclusions, as have studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accountability Office in the early 1990s. Other studies have documented the administrative efficiency and other benefits of Canada’s single-payer system in comparison with the current U.S. system.

Friedman’s research was commissioned by Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit research and educational organization of more than 18,000 doctors nationwide, which wanted to find out how much a single-payer system would cost today and how it could be financed.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:18 PM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The study: http://www.pnhp.org/sites/default/fi...13_proofed.pdf
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #3
Cochise Cochise is offline
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"Obamacare will reduce the cost of your health care"

"You'll be able to keep your health plan"

"You can keep your doctor. Period."

"Obamacare won't add one dime to the deficit"

"Obamacare is a jobs bill"
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:22 PM   #4
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Cue the red scare and "OMG teh insurance executives monees!!" in 3...2...1.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:23 PM   #5
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
"Obamacare will reduce the cost of your health care"

"You'll be able to keep your health plan"

"You can keep your doctor. Period."

"Obamacare won't add one dime to the deficit"

"Obamacare is a jobs bill"
This is probably a waste of both of our time, but:

Which of the following premises do you disagree with, if either:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:24 PM   #6
stevieray stevieray is offline
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we aren't even entitiled to our health....
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #7
Bewbies Bewbies is offline
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:38 PM   #8
Cochise Cochise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
This is probably a waste of both of our time, but:

Which of the following premises do you disagree with, if either:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.
Not everyone needs health insurance.

Last edited by Cochise; 08-04-2013 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:42 PM   #9
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
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Also, the Canadian health plan achieves its cost saving by making you wait for just about everything. Instead of the cost being mostly monetary the cost is less monetary and more in time. There is a reason why Canadians come down here for procedures and pay for them out of pocket.

If you wanted to make health care more affordable you should copy the auto insurance model. You don't use your insurance to get an oil change just like you shouldn't use your health insurance to get a check up.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:44 PM   #10
Discuss Thrower Discuss Thrower is offline
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If people accept the fact services will have to be rationed and loved ones may die or be in pain for an extended duration then go for it.

I just don't see how coverage for an incredibly unhealthy and hypochondriac society of 300mil+ will be sufficient without sacrifices being made by all parties.

Except Congress and their hangers-on. They'll be okay, of course.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #11
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Also, the Canadian health plan achieves its cost saving by making you wait for just about everything. Instead of the cost being mostly monetary the cost is less monetary and more in time. There is a reason why Canadians come down here for procedures and pay for them out of pocket.

If you wanted to make health care more affordable you should copy the auto insurance model. You don't use your insurance to get an oil change just like you shouldn't use your health insurance to get a check up.
I have met and talked to people from Canada. They have all talked about waiting lists where they basically wait out the patients. If you die before treatment it saves money. Directshun is a worthless shitbag and some I would enjoy kicking the shit out of~
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:51 PM   #12
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No, I don't see how this plan could fail.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:54 PM   #13
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Single payer is WORLDS better than Obamacare and yet still a complete piece of shit.

Some reasons why single payer blows goats...

It guarantees everyone has coverage but does not guarantee that they will actually get medical care. "Free" health care means that there will be a metric ton of abuse. People going to the doctor for every ridiculous little thing. The system can't handle this so you end up with some form of rationing. Maybe that means huge wait times, maybe it means "panels", I have no clue what form it would take but it absolutely would be a necessary fact of life

The THEORY that it would save on administrative costs is sound until of course you take into account reality. As a government program it will be subject to the same bloat over time that all govt programs suffer from. It will also inherently contain a political element that will allow various lobbies to insert their own pork into the programs. Absolute nightmare in the long term.

Lastly, we already are seeing more and more doctors retiring early to avoid Obamacare. What do you think would happen with single payer? Welcome to a world where going to the doctor will be very much like calling Dell for tech support. (Don't believe me? Go to England.)
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:55 PM   #14
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I have met and talked to people from Canada. They have all talked about waiting lists where they basically wait out the patients. If you die before treatment it saves money. Directshun is a worthless shitbag and some I would enjoy kicking the shit out of~
Quality post, as per usual.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Not everyone needs health insurance.
Welcome to a hilariously small minority opinion.

Who among us does not need health insurance?
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