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Old 08-04-2013, 02:18 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Single payer would cover everyone, and save $2 trillion over 10 years.

So many of the complaints over the ACA by many of the conservatives would be put to rest, here.

Health insurance should be something that simply everybody has. The people in society who do not have insurance do not have it because they cannot afford it. It's that simple. Nobody wants to live without health insurance.

So if we agree on a couple basic things:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.

...then why not accept a basic plan that (a.) covers everybody that is (b.) as cheap as humanly possible?

The best option for that: single payer. Every American is covered. Premiums take less out of everyone's pocket. Nearly $2 trillion is saved, money that can go into a now-potentially-explosive economy.

Why are we not doing this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/july/%...year-new-study

‘Medicare for All’ would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all – at less cost to families and businesses
Mark Almberg, communications director
Posted on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Upgrading the nation’s Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

That’s the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.

Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care,” Friedman said.

His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicare’s 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedman’s full report, with tables and charts, is available here.

Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with today’s private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public system’s bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).

“These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care,” he said.

Friedman said the savings would also fund $51 billion in transition costs such as retraining displaced workers from the insurance industry and phasing out investor-owned, for-profit delivery systems.

Over the next decade, the system’s savings from reduced health inflation (“bending the cost curve”), thanks to cost-control methods such as negotiated fees, lump-sum payments to hospitals, and capital planning, would amount to an estimated $1.8 trillion.

“Paradoxically, by expanding Medicare to everyone we’d end up saving billions of dollars annually,” he said. “We’d be safeguarding Medicare’s fiscal integrity while enhancing the nation’s health for the long term.”

Friedman said the plan would be funded by maintaining current federal revenues for health care and imposing new, modest tax increases on very high income earners. It would also be funded by a small increase in payroll taxes on employers, who would no longer pay health insurance premiums, and a new, very small tax on stock and bond transactions.

“Such a financing scheme would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, restore free choice of physician, guarantee all necessary medical care, improve patient health and, because it would be financed by a program of progressive taxation, result in 95 percent of all U.S. households saving money,” Friedman said.

Friedman’s findings are consistent with other research showing large savings from a single-payer plan. Single-payer fiscal studies by other economists, such as Kenneth E. Thorpe (2005), have arrived at similar conclusions, as have studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accountability Office in the early 1990s. Other studies have documented the administrative efficiency and other benefits of Canada’s single-payer system in comparison with the current U.S. system.

Friedman’s research was commissioned by Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit research and educational organization of more than 18,000 doctors nationwide, which wanted to find out how much a single-payer system would cost today and how it could be financed.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:15 PM   #136
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Everyone gets a free house and car from the govt. Reports say it wont cost taxpayers a dime. #direkshun #cosmo
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:37 PM   #137
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
Everyone gets a free house and car from the govt. Reports say it wont cost taxpayers a dime. #direkshun #cosmo
Hey look another strawman.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:46 PM
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:06 PM   #138
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Much like you, this statement is retarded.

Emergency only health care (like a deductable plan that kicks in say when your costs go over $5000 per year but doesnt cover much else, but say maybe one check up per year if that)....can be an EXCELLENT option for lots of people who are currently without ANY insurance.

1)For one thing 60% of bankruptcies are caused by....(drum roll)....EMERGENCY HEALTH CARE!

If those people had some form of cheap emergency health care they wouldn't have to file bankruptcy, and lose their credit for YEARS.


2) for young people who don't need much health care it can be a great option and cover for accidents and major things like bone breaks and sports accidents while not paying for services they do not need (like prescriptions and full service care)

3) for people who are trying to save money it can be a viable option to save a couple hundred a month and just go 'out of pocket' on medicine and doctor bills, but still have peace of mind and be covered in case of emergency.

4) getting people who have no insurance to buy 'emergency' coverage accomplishes a major goal of getting healthy, younger people who otherwise are not in the insurance pool INTO the pool thus spreading the risk out and lowering the costs for everyone in the pool...a BASIC precept of insurance.


The reason I don't respond to everything you say is because I have already stated these things numerous times in various threads. Everyone but a few people on these boards seems to grasp these very basic concepts except for bumbling morons such as yourself.

But go ahead and keep crying about rep and over-simplifying complicated topics while fumble ****ing and stumbling and showing how ignorant you are about even simple ideas....at the same time as posting your 'genoius' observations about how emergency insurance is a 'scam' without even talking about the risks versus reward or cost differences or even mentioning the insurance pool.

Please Oh wise sage, continue.
I don't care about my rep. I just think it's funny when people hide their comments in my rep.


http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...lans/index.htm
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:11 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Is this quote supposed to be your version of a rebuttal against anything, ANYTHING that I posted?

My god you are a ****ing idiot.

You begged me to have this argument with you, and THIS is your ****ing come back? A stupid ****ing consumer reports article?

An article that doesn't even mention anything contradicting my post?

BAHAHAHAHAHAAH


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Old 08-06-2013, 05:30 PM   #140
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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People are seriously pandering for a system like the French? Try asking French people about their health care system some time before speaking out of your ass about it. Those I know literally fly their family members over here for serious health care - that's a hell of a trip to the doctor. But hey, the French have it all figured out!
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
People are seriously pandering for a system like the French?
I Know I am not pandering for that type of system


But I am not happy with the status quo either

A system like Massachusetts seems decent, on the surface at least.

I think there are a couple other states too that have it right.

I would personally rather think / discuss ideas on what type of systems might work than "**** Obama" or "**** France" tho

I am interested in your thoughts on how to fix the shit rather than why trying to fix it in x, y or z particular way is a bad idea

Let's hear some thoughts on what you would do.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:48 PM   #142
KC native KC native is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
People are seriously pandering for a system like the French? Try asking French people about their health care system some time before speaking out of your ass about it. Those I know literally fly their family members over here for serious health care - that's a hell of a trip to the doctor. But hey, the French have it all figured out!
Woooohoooooo for BEP style anecdotes.

Try again. France has a world class health care system that has better measurables and is vastly cheaper than our system.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:53 PM   #143
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Thing we can all agree on
1) We all need food

2) food costs too much

d) Free food for all, some, ME

X) Alcohol, we all need that too

@) Alcohol costs too much

() Free for all

Can't we all agree on these things?

/Thread
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:27 PM   #144
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Strangely yes, Jesus didn't say the hungry will always be around so there are no moral restraints on insuring the poor are fed. It is simply economical. And a country can agree to insure everyone is fed before then splitting up the countries production.

Now the alcohol part . . . well I'm moving to my house in Washington. Can we address that vice.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Woooohoooooo for BEP style anecdotes.

Try again. France has a world class health care system that has better measurables and is vastly cheaper than our system.
Comparing the French (or really almost any other country's) health care system to ours is just dumb.

#1 the French have a completely different lifestyle (historically) and enjoy NATURALLY better health
#2 (until recently) their culture was such that abuse and over consumption weren't major issues

Even with these two major factors in play... they are currently 3-5 years away from bankruptcy and are scrambling to come up with ways to reform their BROKEN health care system.

It all comes down to the inherent problem with FREE SHIT. People can't be trusted to do what is best for anyone other than themselves. Over time abuse will run rampant. It's as if progressives have never taken a ****ing psychology or sociology class in their lives.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:37 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Comparing the French (or really almost any other country's) health care system to ours is just dumb.

#1 the French have a completely different lifestyle (historically) and enjoy NATURALLY better health
#2 (until recently) their culture was such that abuse and over consumption weren't major issues

Even with these two major factors in play... they are currently 3-5 years away from bankruptcy and are scrambling to come up with ways to reform their BROKEN health care system.

It all comes down to the inherent problem with FREE SHIT. People can't be trusted to do what is best for anyone other than themselves. Over time abuse will run rampant. It's as if progressives have never taken a ****ing psychology or sociology class in their lives.
But their religion is science. How could the possibly not understand psychology?
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:27 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Comparing the French (or really almost any other country's) health care system to ours is just dumb.

#1 the French have a completely different lifestyle (historically) and enjoy NATURALLY better health
#2 (until recently) their culture was such that abuse and over consumption weren't major issues

Even with these two major factors in play... they are currently 3-5 years away from bankruptcy and are scrambling to come up with ways to reform their BROKEN health care system.

It all comes down to the inherent problem with FREE SHIT. People can't be trusted to do what is best for anyone other than themselves. Over time abuse will run rampant. It's as if progressives have never taken a ****ing psychology or sociology class in their lives.
No, they aren't.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:41 AM   #148
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Uncomfortable fact: about 30% of all Medicare costs are incurred by people in their last six months of life.

Perhaps rather than trying to get nine more months of shitty quality of life we begin to embrace the idea of palliative therapy and recognize when certain causes are lost.

OMG teh death panels!!
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:20 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And your plan is?
You're too dumb to see it even when it's been in your face numerous times. Communists and socialists say we need a plan.

We don't need a stinkin' plan. We need a free-market in healthcare.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:21 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Uncomfortable fact: about 30% of all Medicare costs are incurred by people in their last six months of life.

Perhaps rather than trying to get nine more months of shitty quality of life we begin to embrace the idea of palliative therapy and recognize when certain causes are lost.

OMG teh death panels!!
The free market would handle this just fine.
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