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Old 08-04-2013, 01:18 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Single payer would cover everyone, and save $2 trillion over 10 years.

So many of the complaints over the ACA by many of the conservatives would be put to rest, here.

Health insurance should be something that simply everybody has. The people in society who do not have insurance do not have it because they cannot afford it. It's that simple. Nobody wants to live without health insurance.

So if we agree on a couple basic things:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.

...then why not accept a basic plan that (a.) covers everybody that is (b.) as cheap as humanly possible?

The best option for that: single payer. Every American is covered. Premiums take less out of everyone's pocket. Nearly $2 trillion is saved, money that can go into a now-potentially-explosive economy.

Why are we not doing this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/july/%...year-new-study

‘Medicare for All’ would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all – at less cost to families and businesses
Mark Almberg, communications director
Posted on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Upgrading the nation’s Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

That’s the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.

Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care,” Friedman said.

His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicare’s 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedman’s full report, with tables and charts, is available here.

Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with today’s private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public system’s bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).

“These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care,” he said.

Friedman said the savings would also fund $51 billion in transition costs such as retraining displaced workers from the insurance industry and phasing out investor-owned, for-profit delivery systems.

Over the next decade, the system’s savings from reduced health inflation (“bending the cost curve”), thanks to cost-control methods such as negotiated fees, lump-sum payments to hospitals, and capital planning, would amount to an estimated $1.8 trillion.

“Paradoxically, by expanding Medicare to everyone we’d end up saving billions of dollars annually,” he said. “We’d be safeguarding Medicare’s fiscal integrity while enhancing the nation’s health for the long term.”

Friedman said the plan would be funded by maintaining current federal revenues for health care and imposing new, modest tax increases on very high income earners. It would also be funded by a small increase in payroll taxes on employers, who would no longer pay health insurance premiums, and a new, very small tax on stock and bond transactions.

“Such a financing scheme would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, restore free choice of physician, guarantee all necessary medical care, improve patient health and, because it would be financed by a program of progressive taxation, result in 95 percent of all U.S. households saving money,” Friedman said.

Friedman’s findings are consistent with other research showing large savings from a single-payer plan. Single-payer fiscal studies by other economists, such as Kenneth E. Thorpe (2005), have arrived at similar conclusions, as have studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accountability Office in the early 1990s. Other studies have documented the administrative efficiency and other benefits of Canada’s single-payer system in comparison with the current U.S. system.

Friedman’s research was commissioned by Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit research and educational organization of more than 18,000 doctors nationwide, which wanted to find out how much a single-payer system would cost today and how it could be financed.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
No. Someone who is young and healthy and of reasonable means can pay for most things out of pocket and most all of them would be fine.

.



Wow you really have no clue as to how insurance pools work, or why our country is even in this mess to begin with, do you?
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #47
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
No. Someone who is young and healthy and of reasonable means can pay for most things out of pocket and most all of them would be fine.

Whether someone chooses to go without insurance or not isn't any of my business.

It's also not any of my business if a person goes to a casino with their life savings or risks it all against a stock tip, or takes any other financial risk.
The problem is that most people don't have insurance because they can't afford it, not because they don't want to be insured.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #48
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Are you going to answer or not?
Your question was a false dilemma logical fallacy.

My response was a cordial way of pointing that out.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #49
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Single payer wouldn't save a dime. There is no federal govt program that has ever saved a dime. These programs ALWAYS run into billions of dollars more than ever projected. This is a failure to learn from the history of the federal govt programs or learn that one never saves more than they spend.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The problem is that most people don't have insurance because they can't afford it, not because they don't want to be insured.
well or there are the young 22-30ish crowd who doesnt choose to buy it, becuase they would rather take the risk and spend their money or save it

its a decent gamble honestly

I did it for a few years

but that is one of the things driving the costs of insurance higher...as well as the cost of actual care
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:25 PM   #51
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I've suggested that you not use absolutes. You really shouldn't.
When it comes to healthcare, and really national policy in general, I take pains to avoid doing so.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:25 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Single payer wouldn't save a dime.
Let's hear your solution then.

What would you do to stop the madness we have now and the out of control rate increases that were happening before obama was ever heard of.

Tell us.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Your question was a false dilemma logical fallacy.

My response was a cordial way of pointing that out.
Thanks BEP, but you forgot statist strawman.

And how exactly would you suggest that we would pay for a single-payer system? Would you be in favor of raising taxes on gasoline to the level that Canada does or not?
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:26 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
When it comes to healthcare, and really national policy in general, I take pains to avoid doing so.
Then don't write things like "everyone."
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #55
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
well or there are the young 22-30ish crowd who doesnt choose to buy it, becuase they would rather take the risk and spend their money or save it

its a decent gamble honestly

I did it for a few years

but that is one of the things driving the costs of insurance higher...as well as the cost of actual care
Even then, if you asked them if they'd like to be insured, the answer would almost always be yes.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #56
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Then don't write things like "everyone."
In the post you had quoted, I didn't.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Thanks BEP, but you forgot statist strawman.

And how exactly would you suggest that we would pay for a single-payer system? Would you be in favor of raising taxes on gasoline to the level that Canada does or not?
It was a logical fallacy. Sorry.

I wouldn't count out 99% of the ideas available for paying for single payer. That includes gas taxes.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
well or there are the young 22-30ish crowd who doesnt choose to buy it, becuase they would rather take the risk and spend their money or save it

its a decent gamble honestly

I did it for a few years

but that is one of the things driving the costs of insurance higher...as well as the cost of actual care
I am 29. I haven't had insurance since I was 20.

I hate it. I hate knowing Id be screwed if I get hurt. Screwed for life.
I am thankfully every day I don't get hurt.

I work two jobs. Neither offer healthcare. I can't afford my own healthcare, besides that fact that basic, cover only emergencies style coverage is one of the biggest scams in the country. I will never buy that style insurance. Waste of Money.

Yes, I want to be insured. One more semester left.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
In the post you had quoted, I didn't.


You got me good!

Everybody.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:32 PM   #60
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Love it when a shitty plan is seen as shitty and is replaced by another shitty plan by the same ****ups who created shitty plan one.

Lets start with the notion HC is a right...that Government is the best to deliver any service and then watch this crash and burn.
When you fix a system little by little that wasn't broke once upon a time, on the basis of ideology. you start to make it a little bit less affordable and efficient which requires another fix, which does the same until you get to where we are today. Let's face it the Progressive Left has been aiming for socialized medicine since at least 1912. It wouldn't matter worth a damn, had the system not been made broken by their interference causing market distortions, particularly with regard to pricing mechanisms. They just want it by golly! <----the true motive despite their rhetoric.
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