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Old 08-04-2013, 01:18 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Single payer would cover everyone, and save $2 trillion over 10 years.

So many of the complaints over the ACA by many of the conservatives would be put to rest, here.

Health insurance should be something that simply everybody has. The people in society who do not have insurance do not have it because they cannot afford it. It's that simple. Nobody wants to live without health insurance.

So if we agree on a couple basic things:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.

...then why not accept a basic plan that (a.) covers everybody that is (b.) as cheap as humanly possible?

The best option for that: single payer. Every American is covered. Premiums take less out of everyone's pocket. Nearly $2 trillion is saved, money that can go into a now-potentially-explosive economy.

Why are we not doing this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/july/%...year-new-study

‘Medicare for All’ would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all – at less cost to families and businesses
Mark Almberg, communications director
Posted on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Upgrading the nation’s Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

That’s the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.

Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care,” Friedman said.

His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicare’s 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedman’s full report, with tables and charts, is available here.

Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with today’s private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public system’s bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).

“These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care,” he said.

Friedman said the savings would also fund $51 billion in transition costs such as retraining displaced workers from the insurance industry and phasing out investor-owned, for-profit delivery systems.

Over the next decade, the system’s savings from reduced health inflation (“bending the cost curve”), thanks to cost-control methods such as negotiated fees, lump-sum payments to hospitals, and capital planning, would amount to an estimated $1.8 trillion.

“Paradoxically, by expanding Medicare to everyone we’d end up saving billions of dollars annually,” he said. “We’d be safeguarding Medicare’s fiscal integrity while enhancing the nation’s health for the long term.”

Friedman said the plan would be funded by maintaining current federal revenues for health care and imposing new, modest tax increases on very high income earners. It would also be funded by a small increase in payroll taxes on employers, who would no longer pay health insurance premiums, and a new, very small tax on stock and bond transactions.

“Such a financing scheme would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, restore free choice of physician, guarantee all necessary medical care, improve patient health and, because it would be financed by a program of progressive taxation, result in 95 percent of all U.S. households saving money,” Friedman said.

Friedman’s findings are consistent with other research showing large savings from a single-payer plan. Single-payer fiscal studies by other economists, such as Kenneth E. Thorpe (2005), have arrived at similar conclusions, as have studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accountability Office in the early 1990s. Other studies have documented the administrative efficiency and other benefits of Canada’s single-payer system in comparison with the current U.S. system.

Friedman’s research was commissioned by Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit research and educational organization of more than 18,000 doctors nationwide, which wanted to find out how much a single-payer system would cost today and how it could be financed.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:51 PM   #106
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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In France doctors only make $60k. Few American doctors will accept that. Plus it's tests that can cost a lot too.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:55 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
That's your refutation? WoW! How 'bout we get rid of over 2000 mandates so we don't have anything like the current system?
i'm not refuting anything

I'm asking a simple question...I dont really have a dog in the hunt

I didn't think you'd have the answer, and I was right
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:57 PM   #108
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i'm not refuting anything

I'm asking a simple question...I dont really have a dog in the hunt

I didn't think you'd have the answer, and I was right
Well, then "your response." Makes no difference to me because the free-market is the best solution.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:00 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, then "your response." Makes no difference to me because the free-market is the best solution.
clearly you didnt even read


Don't the freeloaders get care regardless? Wouldnt they get care no matter what system we had? Doesnt it behoove us to try to care for the freeloaders as cheaply as possible, like prevention instead of cures?
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:20 PM   #110
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"2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it."

This is false. There are a number of young workers who don't want to fork over big bucks for insurance because they are young and healthy.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:23 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoover View Post
"2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it."

This is false. There are a number of young workers who don't want to fork over big bucks for insurance because they are young and healthy.
Don't you have a caucus to throw for jeb bush?
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
In France doctors only make $60k. Few American doctors will accept that. Plus it's tests that can cost a lot too.
I'd wager a lot of the cost that goes to paying doctors has to do with the amount of money it cost to educate them in America along with the artificial cap we place on the amount of Doctors trained. AKA When schools only accept 20 nurse or doctor applicants into the program a year when over a 100 apply.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:09 AM   #113
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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So, I take it you only have the lowest level of liability coverage on your car? That whole damage part is a big scam since you only use it for catastrophes......
Do a little research on what is covered, the percent of actual usage of getting that coverage versus the amount of money you pay.

It is a lot worse than the lowest car level insurance.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:26 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
In France doctors only make $60k. Few American doctors will accept that. Plus it's tests that can cost a lot too.
Starting salary for GP yes. But that goes up to 110,000 pretty quick. The average in the US for GP is 180,000. By the way British salaries are higher, actually higher than anyone else but the US.

Earlier you said you offered 1/3 payment for office visits. One third of 180,000 is 60,000 so I suspect your offer indicates that American Doctors would consider working for 60,000.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:36 AM   #115
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Under Obamacare, the salaries of Primary Care doctors will go up relative to Specialists. In the US specialist are paid huge salaries compared to GP in the US. Health systems are required to address this and are currently doing so. The health system my wife works for is looking specifically at salaries tagged as too high and that does represent a problem.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:38 AM   #116
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And who will develop new drugs and pay for compliance when pharma is reduced to pennies of profit
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:39 AM   #117
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Returning to the France setup. American doctors have debt approaching 200,000 on average going through med school. French doctors maybe 10,000. French doctors education is paid by state.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:47 AM   #118
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And who will develop new drugs and pay for compliance when pharma is reduced to pennies of profit
Will the existing drug therapies suddenly quit working because Pharma isn't making huge profits? Pharma, driven by profit, has neglected areas like antibiotics and such where margins are low anyway and most of these areas represent where big impacts in health can be found.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:53 AM   #119
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Returning to the France setup. American doctors have debt approaching 200,000 on average going through med school. French doctors maybe 10,000. French doctors education is paid by state.
Why doesn't Big Education bring down their costs so more people can afford to go to college and graduate school?
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #120
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Hey this thread again.

It's pretty simple really. We pay too much for terrible results. A French style single payor plus private insurance system is the way to go.

WAR ON CAPITALISM
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