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Old 08-04-2013, 01:18 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Single payer would cover everyone, and save $2 trillion over 10 years.

So many of the complaints over the ACA by many of the conservatives would be put to rest, here.

Health insurance should be something that simply everybody has. The people in society who do not have insurance do not have it because they cannot afford it. It's that simple. Nobody wants to live without health insurance.

So if we agree on a couple basic things:

1. Everybody needs to have quality health insurance.
2. The people who don't have it are the ones who can't afford it.

...then why not accept a basic plan that (a.) covers everybody that is (b.) as cheap as humanly possible?

The best option for that: single payer. Every American is covered. Premiums take less out of everyone's pocket. Nearly $2 trillion is saved, money that can go into a now-potentially-explosive economy.

Why are we not doing this?

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2013/july/%...year-new-study

‘Medicare for All’ would cover everyone, save billions in first year: new study
Economist says Canadian-style, single-payer health plan would reap huge savings from reduced paperwork and from negotiated drug prices, enough to pay for quality coverage for all – at less cost to families and businesses
Mark Almberg, communications director
Posted on: Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Upgrading the nation’s Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

That’s the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.

Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.

“No other plan can achieve this magnitude of savings on health care,” Friedman said.

His findings were released this morning [Wednesday, July 31, 11 a.m. EDT] at a congressional briefing in the Cannon House Office Building hosted by Public Citizen and Physicians for a National Health Program, followed by a 1 p.m. news conference with Rep. Conyers and others in observance of Medicare’s 48th anniversary at the House Triangle near the Capitol steps. A copy of Friedman’s full report, with tables and charts, is available here.

Friedman said the savings would come from slashing the administrative waste associated with today’s private health insurance industry ($476 billion) and using the new, public system’s bargaining muscle to negotiate pharmaceutical drug prices down to European levels ($116 billion).

“These savings would be more than enough to fund $343 billion in improvements to our health system, including the achievement of truly universal coverage, improved benefits, and the elimination of premiums, co-payments and deductibles, which are major barriers to people seeking care,” he said.

Friedman said the savings would also fund $51 billion in transition costs such as retraining displaced workers from the insurance industry and phasing out investor-owned, for-profit delivery systems.

Over the next decade, the system’s savings from reduced health inflation (“bending the cost curve”), thanks to cost-control methods such as negotiated fees, lump-sum payments to hospitals, and capital planning, would amount to an estimated $1.8 trillion.

“Paradoxically, by expanding Medicare to everyone we’d end up saving billions of dollars annually,” he said. “We’d be safeguarding Medicare’s fiscal integrity while enhancing the nation’s health for the long term.”

Friedman said the plan would be funded by maintaining current federal revenues for health care and imposing new, modest tax increases on very high income earners. It would also be funded by a small increase in payroll taxes on employers, who would no longer pay health insurance premiums, and a new, very small tax on stock and bond transactions.

“Such a financing scheme would vastly simplify how the nation pays for care, restore free choice of physician, guarantee all necessary medical care, improve patient health and, because it would be financed by a program of progressive taxation, result in 95 percent of all U.S. households saving money,” Friedman said.

Friedman’s findings are consistent with other research showing large savings from a single-payer plan. Single-payer fiscal studies by other economists, such as Kenneth E. Thorpe (2005), have arrived at similar conclusions, as have studies conducted by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accountability Office in the early 1990s. Other studies have documented the administrative efficiency and other benefits of Canada’s single-payer system in comparison with the current U.S. system.

Friedman’s research was commissioned by Physicians for a National Health Program, a nonprofit research and educational organization of more than 18,000 doctors nationwide, which wanted to find out how much a single-payer system would cost today and how it could be financed.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:52 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
clearly you didnt even read


Don't the freeloaders get care regardless? Wouldnt they get care no matter what system we had? Doesnt it behoove us to try to care for the freeloaders as cheaply as possible, like prevention instead of cures?
Goddamn, obsess much cassel cum guzzler?

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Old 08-05-2013, 10:24 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Goddamn, obsess much cassel cum guzzler?
stop saying stupid ass shit then
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
stop saying stupid ass shit then
You are one of the dumbest people on cp. I slot you just higher than prison bitch, bep, and disHonest. That might be too high.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:33 AM   #124
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Returning to the France setup. American doctors have debt approaching 200,000 on average going through med school. French doctors maybe 10,000. French doctors education is paid by state.
Which is also really stupid. But that's what will be pushed next.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #125
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Why doesn't Big Education bring down their costs so more people can afford to go to college and graduate school?
Because the subsidies for that pushes the demand curve driving up the costs. The financial aid game is a gravy train and racket for higher education. People used to work their way through...now they're debt slaves.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #126
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Under Obamacare, the salaries of Primary Care doctors will go up relative to Specialists. In the US specialist are paid huge salaries compared to GP in the US. Health systems are required to address this and are currently doing so. The health system my wife works for is looking specifically at salaries tagged as too high and that does represent a problem.
GPs make about $160 which is really not that high for 12 years of school. Specialists make upwards of $250 and much more.

But at least you're admitting that trips to your GP will go up. So ACA doesn't save.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #127
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Will the existing drug therapies suddenly quit working because Pharma isn't making huge profits? Pharma, driven by profit, has neglected areas like antibiotics and such where margins are low anyway and most of these areas represent where big impacts in health can be found.
Ah, Big Pharma also funds most of the grants to medical schools—helping to guarantee they have plenty of drug pushers out there.
This is why, our system is so excessively drug pushed making people sicker long term.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #128
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I'd wager a lot of the cost that goes to paying doctors has to do with the amount of money it cost to educate them in America along with the artificial cap we place on the amount of Doctors trained. AKA When schools only accept 20 nurse or doctor applicants into the program a year when over a 100 apply.
My understanding was that back around the late 70's, medical schools were made easier to get into to have more supply and keep costs down. Such nonsense never works.

But did you know despite the pay of French doctors France still has one of the most costly and expensive of the socialized health systems. It's no wonder they're economy has imploded.

But in Europe, they also use more lo-tech healthcare in general than Americans.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:25 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
You are one of the dumbest people on cp. I slot you just higher than prison bitch, bep, and disHonest. That might be too high.
It only seems that way because you can't understand anything I am saying, apparently.

Saying prison bitch & myself are "dumb" is a part of your problem...

You simply dont agree with us....or even comprehend the concepts, so you shout "DUMB!"

I don't agree with Prison bitch on alot of things, but I don't call him dumb because he isn't dumb.

You, on the other hand, seem honestly incapable of any coherent thought other than "lump anyone who seems conservative together and call them dumb"
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
It only seems that way because you can't understand anything I am saying, apparently.

Saying prison bitch & myself are "dumb" is a part of your problem...

You simply dont agree with us....or even comprehend the concepts, so you shout "DUMB!"

I don't agree with Prison bitch on alot of things, but I don't call him dumb because he isn't dumb.

You, on the other hand, seem honestly incapable of any coherent thought other than "lump anyone who seems conservative together and call them dumb"
I'm far from the only person that thinks both of you are ****ing retarded.

BTW, out of my last 12 reps, you are 10 of them. Did I strike a nerve?

Quote:
Single payer would... 08-05-2013 04:28 PM Pawnmower prison bitch isnt dumb, he just doesnt agree with you
Single payer would... 08-05-2013 10:31 AM Pawnmower WAR ON TARDISM!
Burger flippers want... 08-05-2013 10:29 AM Pawnmower WAR ON pillowbiterGOTRY!!!!
Fox News’ Lauren Green... 08-02-2013 03:27 PM Pawnmower durp
Fox News’ Lauren Green... 08-01-2013 03:26 PM Pawnmower durp
Fox News’ Lauren Green... 08-01-2013 01:50 AM Pawnmower duerp
*****OFFICIAL 2013... 07-30-2013 07:37 PM frazod You may a rather poor victim, douche.
New York Times | Soccer... 07-25-2013 12:20 PM frazod Hi Pancho! How's your wife and my kids?
Would you like to... 07-25-2013 02:10 AM Pawnmower way to avoid the question...monopoly money doesnt count you lying sack of shit infested with maggots
The Top 20% Have No... 07-25-2013 12:40 AM Pawnmower **** you , you piece of shit ****ing cuckaracha
The Top 20% Have No... 07-25-2013 12:38 AM Pawnmower seriously you make her look like a genius because you are a drooling moron
The Top 20% Have No... 07-25-2013 12:34 AM Pawnmower wrong as usual. It is from Long's chart...all you have to do is look at the chart. It is OVERALL tax rate (all taxes)
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:33 PM   #131
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Pawnmower, I know you prefer smaller govt but want healthcare prices brought down. I don't disagree with either. But a govt plan will not achieve this goal.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:08 AM   #132
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BTW, out of my last 12 reps, you are 10 of them. Did I strike a nerve?
Same here. He apparently even didn't like the fact that I think emergency only health insurance is a scam.

Negative rep without a comment in a thread about it. Cowardly.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:36 AM   #133
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Pawnmower, I know you prefer smaller govt but want healthcare prices brought down. I don't disagree with either. But a govt plan will not achieve this goal.
And your plan is?
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:01 AM   #134
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Same here. He apparently even didn't like the fact that I think emergency only health insurance is a scam.

Much like you, this statement is retarded.

Emergency only health care (like a deductable plan that kicks in say when your costs go over $5000 per year but doesnt cover much else, but say maybe one check up per year if that)....can be an EXCELLENT option for lots of people who are currently without ANY insurance.

1)For one thing 60% of bankruptcies are caused by....(drum roll)....EMERGENCY HEALTH CARE!

If those people had some form of cheap emergency health care they wouldn't have to file bankruptcy, and lose their credit for YEARS.


2) for young people who don't need much health care it can be a great option and cover for accidents and major things like bone breaks and sports accidents while not paying for services they do not need (like prescriptions and full service care)

3) for people who are trying to save money it can be a viable option to save a couple hundred a month and just go 'out of pocket' on medicine and doctor bills, but still have peace of mind and be covered in case of emergency.

4) getting people who have no insurance to buy 'emergency' coverage accomplishes a major goal of getting healthy, younger people who otherwise are not in the insurance pool INTO the pool thus spreading the risk out and lowering the costs for everyone in the pool...a BASIC precept of insurance.


The reason I don't respond to everything you say is because I have already stated these things numerous times in various threads. Everyone but a few people on these boards seems to grasp these very basic concepts except for bumbling morons such as yourself.

But go ahead and keep crying about rep and over-simplifying complicated topics while fumble ****ing and stumbling and showing how ignorant you are about even simple ideas....at the same time as posting your 'genoius' observations about how emergency insurance is a 'scam' without even talking about the risks versus reward or cost differences or even mentioning the insurance pool.

Please Oh wise sage, continue.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:24 AM   #135
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Drek actually believes Obamaocare is going to provide health care.

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