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Old 08-06-2013, 01:18 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Libertarian Jeff Bezos buys The Washington Post

Libertarian Jeff Bezos buys The Washington Post

Who knew that 2013's first billionaire-libertarian-buys-major-American-newspaper story didn't involve the name Koch? And how far the once-infallible business model of newspapering has fallen....

Bezos, who was named one of Reason's "35 Heroes of Freedom" in 2003, has contributed money in the past to the Reason Foundation, the 501(c)3 nonprofit that publishes this website. Reason on the Amazon founder here.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/05/am...e-washington-p
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:55 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Oh so you're admitting that you're trolling me as an individual now? I didn't make party affiliation into a "monster" here. However, when it comes to journalism ideological affiliation is a very relevant factor because no one completely escapes their own biases or world view when choosing what to report on and how.

In fact it plays a role in everyone's viewpoint. I don't call that a "monster" either. I call that a real world observation. It's the chosen ideology that would be the "monster." But let's not hijack. My post was relevant to this thread.
You are using the term Liberal as a way to dismiss him, which is why I said you are making a monster out of it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat View Post
You are using the term Liberal as a way to dismiss him, which is why I said you are making a monster out of it.
In your opinion it's a monster.

But, yes, I am dismissing him. I don't see any revolutionizing and that is my reason why.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
iTunes was an alternative to piracy? iTunes is paying for music, piracy was stealing. Apples and oranges. What iTunes showed is that people wanted mp3's and they wanted to buy music in singles (not just in albums). Meanwhile, record companies continues to push CDs and full albums. Again, consumers wanted to consumer music in a certain way and music stores weren't doing that.
You really don't get it, do you?
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat View Post
You are using the term Liberal as a way to dismiss him, which is why I said you are making a monster out of it.
The point seemed to be that the WashPost has been run by liberals, so if Bezos is a liberal you shouldn't expect the editorial bias to change. If Bezos was a Ron Paul libertarian or a Dick Cheney conservative, there would be a chance the editorial bias could change (obviously for the better, IMO).
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:36 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
You really don't get it, do you?
I don't see what's so hard about this. People pirated music because they liked the mp3 format, and because the music industry failed to embrace mp3s or sales of single songs.

iTunes was NOT an alternative to music piracy. It was an alternative to CDs. Why in the world would you consider buying mp3s an alternative to stealing them for free?

iTunes didn't revolutionize music. They revolutionized the delivery of legal music.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I don't see what's so hard about this. People pirated music because they liked the mp3 format, and because the music industry failed to embrace mp3s or sales of single songs.

iTunes was NOT an alternative to music piracy. It was an alternative to CDs. Why in the world would you consider buying mp3s an alternative to stealing them for free?

iTunes didn't revolutionize music. They revolutionized the delivery of legal music.
That's why he's saying it was an alternative to piracy. It was also an alternative to CDs. You got the convenience, electronic form, and single songs of piracy but you also got the feel-good legitimacy of paying for your music and the peace of mind that you wouldn't get sued.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:33 PM   #52
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That's why he's saying it was an alternative to piracy. It was also an alternative to CDs. You got the convenience, electronic form, and single songs of piracy but you also got the feel-good legitimacy of paying for your music and the peace of mind that you wouldn't get sued.
iTunes would have succeeded even in the years where piracy went unchecked. That's the problem with his argument. iTunes succeeded because it was a brilliant delivery model, not because the music was any better. And not because people were scared about getting busted for stealing music. Did suing pirates help? Of course.

It's a great parallel to the publishing industry. There is a ton of piracy on journalism pieces. We still have mega-publishers clinging to obsolete channels (e.g. Print) the same way the music industry clung to CDs. They still haven't figured out a way to price journalism, just as the music industry stuck with full album pricing for years. And they've been terrible at figuring out how to deliver publishing content to the right accessories, just as the music industry tried and whiffed to do that to mp3 players... until the iPod came along -- there is a ton of compelling potential for how Bezos can deliver this content to tablet and mobile.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
iTunes would have succeeded even in the years where piracy went unchecked. That's the problem with his argument. iTunes succeeded because it was a brilliant delivery model, not because the music was any better. And not because people were scared about getting busted for stealing music. Did suing pirates help? Of course.

It's a great parallel to the publishing industry. There is a ton of piracy on journalism pieces. We still have mega-publishers clinging to obsolete channels (e.g. Print) the same way the music industry clung to CDs. They still haven't figured out a way to price journalism, just as the music industry stuck with full album pricing for years. And they've been terrible at figuring out how to deliver publishing content to the right accessories, just as the music industry tried and whiffed to do that to mp3 players... until the iPod came along -- there is a ton of compelling potential for how Bezos can deliver this content to tablet and mobile.
Piracy is still unchecked. There isn't a problem with his argument (at least on that point). You're just stuck, for whatever reason, thinking that what he's saying is incompatible with the point you're trying to make when it's not.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:29 PM   #54
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Piracy is still unchecked. There isn't a problem with his argument (at least on that point). You're just stuck, for whatever reason, thinking that what he's saying is incompatible with the point you're trying to make when it's not.
The idea that iTunes succeeded because they were offering an alternative to pirated mp3's is a completely false narrative. CDs were a legitimate alternative. And Rhapsody and eMusic provided mp3 stores well before iTunes came along. The argument that iTunes succeeded because it was an alternative to piracy completely ignores the fact that several entrepreneurs tried to monetize mp3 music and failed miserably. It almost implies that iTunes was just lucky to be in the right market at the right time. That's false. Their approach won because it was hands down better than the many businesses trying to do the same exact thing.

The majority of iTunes' success is in the genius of the delivery system. A well branded, unbelievably user-friendly platform with the first logical pricing structure for mp3's, all integrated with a terrific mp3 player.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:52 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The idea that iTunes succeeded because they were offering an alternative to pirated mp3's is a completely false narrative. CDs were a legitimate alternative. And Rhapsody and eMusic provided mp3 stores well before iTunes came along. The argument that iTunes succeeded because it was an alternative to piracy completely ignores the fact that several entrepreneurs tried to monetize mp3 music and failed miserably. It almost implies that iTunes was just lucky to be in the right market at the right time. That's false. Their approach won because it was hands down better than the many businesses trying to do the same exact thing.

The majority of iTunes' success is in the genius of the delivery system. A well branded, unbelievably user-friendly platform with the first logical pricing structure for mp3's, all integrated with a terrific mp3 player.
You're saying a lot of things I agree with, but your hang up about this alternative business is perplexing.

It's an alternative to both. That's not even debateable, IMO.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:14 PM   #56
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You're saying a lot of things I agree with, but your hang up about this alternative business is perplexing.

It's an alternative to both. That's not even debateable, IMO.
Read through the thread. I agree with you. But the comment about iTunes being a replacement for piracy was made to suggest that iTunes was NOT revolutionary in their delivery system. That the only reason they succeeded was because they sold mp3's at a perfect time when people wanted to stop stealing and start buying legit music.

That is total BS and a tremendous discredit to the brilliance in Apple's business model. Apple may have benefited from pirates being sued, but the primary reason they won is because they built by a million miles the most superior system for delivering music to consumers. Period.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Read through the thread. I agree with you. But the comment about iTunes being a replacement for piracy was made to suggest that iTunes was NOT revolutionary in their delivery system. That the only reason they succeeded was because they sold mp3's at a perfect time when people wanted to stop stealing and start buying legit music.

That is total BS and a tremendous discredit to the brilliance in Apple's business model. Apple may have benefited from pirates being sued, but the primary reason they won is because they built by a million miles the most superior system for delivering music to consumers. Period.
Your interpretation of Listo's statements in this thread differs from mine. To me his statement was that iTunes was successful because it came at a time when people wanted to be able to use new tech to download the tracks they specifically wanted at a lower price point than buying CDs as evidenced by the rise of piracy.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:29 PM   #58
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Your interpretation of Listo's statements in this thread differs from mine. To me his statement was that iTunes was successful because it came at a time when people wanted to be able to use new tech to download the tracks they specifically wanted at a lower price point than buying CDs as evidenced by the rise of piracy.
And that doesn't account for the idea that iTunes was by far not the first to try to do this. eMusic and Rhapsody tried to do this for years.

They succeeded because they offered by a million miles the most user-friendly store to search/download/upload music, and a well-branded device to play the music on. They were not the first to try to sell mp3's. They succeeded because they built a brilliant business model around how they'd deliver that sold mp3 to the consumer.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:11 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
And that doesn't account for the idea that iTunes was by far not the first to try to do this. eMusic and Rhapsody tried to do this for years.

They succeeded because they offered by a million miles the most user-friendly store to search/download/upload music, and a well-branded device to play the music on. They were not the first to try to sell mp3's. They succeeded because they built a brilliant business model around how they'd deliver that sold mp3 to the consumer.
iTunes was out before Rhapsody, but that's neither here nor there. I didn't say that it accounted for the entire argument, I just said that you misinterpreted that particular statement listopencil made. I'm not arguing with your other good points about Apple's innovations. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #60
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iTunes was out before Rhapsody, but that's neither here nor there. I didn't say that it accounted for the entire argument, I just said that you misinterpreted that particular statement listopencil made. I'm not arguing with your other good points about Apple's innovations. I don't know why this is so hard for you to accept.
Just a quick clarification... eMusic sold mp3's online 5 years before iTunes did. Rhapsody sold mp3's 2 years before iTunes did.

Let me tell you what this argument is about, and that will provide context on why I'm so defensive. Look, I'm not denying that Apple benefited from good timing, selling mp3's at a time when consumers were looking for legal mp3's as an alternative to pirated music. I'm accepting that. But that's not where listopencil is going. I think it's completely silly for him to discredit my point that Apple revolutionized the way mp3's were delivered to consumers, by using the counterpoint that iTunes was only successful because it wasn't piracy.

Knowing you had software programs like eMusic and that iTunes wasn't the only software program selling mp3s... wouldn't you agree that the primary reason Apple won is not because they were the only ones selling mp3 alternatives to piracy, but because they had by a mile the best delivery system?
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