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Old 08-08-2013, 07:35 PM  
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Why I own a gun

There is a manhunt going on a few miles from my house. I guess five shitbags boosted a van and were involved is some sort of shooting. 3 have been captured and 2 are still on the loose 1 is considered armed and dangerous. I am relaxing watching the latest Borne movie with my trusty Sig laying beside my chair. Now I have a question for the gun control assholes that post here. What would your state of mind be in this situation? Would you be relaxed or would you be peering out the windows hoping the cops protect your house?
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:24 PM   #76
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You're talking about Big Daddy.

It's hard to believe that one of his 2 brain cells hasn't killed off the other one because of suspicion of harboring liberal beliefs.
BD's allright. He just jumps the gun to jump to conclusions too easily.

Not sure what set him off in this thread.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #77
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So the biggest reason you own guns is for pleasure from sporting use and another important reason you own guns is that you are confident that you could use them if needed and that gives you a sense of security and another reason you own guns is so that you can be a missionary to the gunless masses who are not as prepared to defend themselves in an oemergency.

I don't own any firearms, but if you want to give me one that is fit for use I would accept it and spend some time to learn how to use it correctly.

As the proverb goes, instead of telling the hungry guy that he is kinda stupid not to be eating a fish that he does not have, give the fella a bite to eat and already.
I have no desire to defend anyone but myself and my loved ones. The someone else needs to take care of me mentality is something that makes no sense to me. People who boldly brag it is not likely going to happen so I don't worry about it are strange to me. Police solve crimes they don't prevent them. I knew I would get flack from this thread. It is the first time I have been in a situation where I felt the need to have a gun beside me. I felt very secure if the idiot chose my house I was safe. My ten month old grandson and his mom and dad are staying here and I am prepared for the unlikely be it storm or intruder~
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #78
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I have no problem with anyone owning guns. Hell, I think it would be fun to mount an M2 to the top of my SUV. The biggest issue I have with a lot of gun owners (not all, but several) is their use of terrible logic by saying that they need a certain type of gun for self defense. A 20" Mossberg Turkey Special w/ a 3" choke is just as likely to save your ass (moreso in most applications) in a home defense situation as an M4 or a P90.

Guns are fun; in 99% of the applications for adults, they're really expensive and loud toys, and that's cool, but I wish most gun advocates would just admit that.

Moreover, the argument about prohibition of guns has merit. It failed with drugs and failed with alcohol, and it would never succeed completely with guns (although it is far easier to make cocaine or white lightning than an HK 416).

However, the elephant in the room often ignored by most gun owners is that unless they have military or police training (and thus have been conditioned to shoot at human beings) when placed in a situation where they have to use their weapon, there are far more Cpl. Uphams than Private Jacksons. It's an uncomfortable reality, but it's also one I think most people are either ignorant of or unwilling to admit.

Summation: I have guns, I like guns, but don't pretend that you need a specific type of gun (just assert your right to own it) or that you will be able to use it unless you've done it before.
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:03 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
BD's allright. He just jumps the gun to jump to conclusions too easily.

Not sure what set him off in this thread.
Just stirring the pot brother.
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I have no problem with anyone owning guns. Hell, I think it would be fun to mount an M2 to the top of my SUV. The biggest issue I have with a lot of gun owners (not all, but several) is their use of terrible logic by saying that they need a certain type of gun for self defense. A 20" Mossberg Turkey Special w/ a 3" choke is just as likely to save your ass (moreso in most applications) in a home defense situation as an M4 or a P90.

Guns are fun; in 99% of the applications for adults, they're really expensive and loud toys, and that's cool, but I wish most gun advocates would just admit that.

Moreover, the argument about prohibition of guns has merit. It failed with drugs and failed with alcohol, and it would never succeed completely with guns (although it is far easier to make cocaine or white lightning than an HK 416).

However, the elephant in the room often ignored by most gun owners is that unless they have military or police training (and thus have been conditioned to shoot at human beings) when placed in a situation where they have to use their weapon, there are far more Cpl. Uphams than Private Jacksons. It's an uncomfortable reality, but it's also one I think most people are either ignorant of or unwilling to admit.

Summation: I have guns, I like guns, but don't pretend that you need a specific type of gun (just assert your right to own it) or that you will be able to use it unless you've done it before.
Very solid post~
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I have no problem with anyone owning guns. Hell, I think it would be fun to mount an M2 to the top of my SUV. The biggest issue I have with a lot of gun owners (not all, but several) is their use of terrible logic by saying that they need a certain type of gun for self defense. A 20" Mossberg Turkey Special w/ a 3" choke is just as likely to save your ass (moreso in most applications) in a home defense situation as an M4 or a P90.

Guns are fun; in 99% of the applications for adults, they're really expensive and loud toys, and that's cool, but I wish most gun advocates would just admit that.

Moreover, the argument about prohibition of guns has merit. It failed with drugs and failed with alcohol, and it would never succeed completely with guns (although it is far easier to make cocaine or white lightning than an HK 416).

However, the elephant in the room often ignored by most gun owners is that unless they have military or police training (and thus have been conditioned to shoot at human beings) when placed in a situation where they have to use their weapon, there are far more Cpl. Uphams than Private Jacksons. It's an uncomfortable reality, but it's also one I think most people are either ignorant of or unwilling to admit.

Summation: I have guns, I like guns, but don't pretend that you need a specific type of gun (just assert your right to own it) or that you will be able to use it unless you've done it before.
Blah, blah. blah. People who own guns are just sick and tired of the relentless pursuit of said guns by those who would go after them through endless purposed legislation whether that be because of their age, type of weapon, history or even outlawing ammo. Everything they do is misleading or an outright lie like most of the shit posted in this thread. The facts are:

Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
As many as 200,000 of the 2.5 million are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime


The truth is:

When anti-gun activists list the number of deaths per year from firearms, they neglect to mention that 60% of the 30,000 figure they so often use are suicides. They also fail to mention that at least three quarters of the 12,000 homicides are criminals killing other criminals in disputes over illicit drugs, or police shooting criminals engaged in felonies. Subtracting those, we are left with no more than 3,000 deaths in the entire country that I think most would consider valid.

I have posted endless figures on this stuff in the past and if those said gun grabbers don't like people going off about what others would like to do to them for attempting take their guns maybe they should just back the **** off.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #82
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I'm against gun control too, but I don't get why people feel the need to advertise the fact that they have guns and are willing to use them.
Small dick syndrome.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:25 PM   #83
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Small dick syndrome.
if you are in harms way you can grab your ****ing dick. I prefer a more effective weapon~
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
Blah, blah. blah. People who own guns are just sick and tired of the relentless pursuit of said guns by those who would go after them through endless purposed legislation whether that be because of their age, type of weapon, history or even outlawing ammo. Everything they do is misleading or an outright lie like most of the shit posted in this thread. The facts are:

Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
As many as 200,000 of the 2.5 million are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime


The truth is:

When anti-gun activists list the number of deaths per year from firearms, they neglect to mention that 60% of the 30,000 figure they so often use are suicides. They also fail to mention that at least three quarters of the 12,000 homicides are criminals killing other criminals in disputes over illicit drugs, or police shooting criminals engaged in felonies. Subtracting those, we are left with no more than 3,000 deaths in the entire country that I think most would consider valid.

I have posted endless figures on this stuff in the past and if those said gun grabbers don't like people going off about what others would like to do to them for attempting take their guns maybe they should just back the **** off.
I agree with the stats however his point of training is undeniable. It should be a requirement that someone has real training before they can carry a gun in public. I read posts saying "keep your hands to yourself and you will not get shot" I just roll my eyes. We sure as **** don't need wannabe cowboy's packing in public~
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
Blah, blah. blah. People who own guns are just sick and tired of the relentless pursuit of said guns by those who would go after them through endless purposed legislation whether that be because of their age, type of weapon, history or even outlawing ammo. Everything they do is misleading or an outright lie like most of the shit posted in this thread. The facts are:

Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
As many as 200,000 of the 2.5 million are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime


The truth is:

When anti-gun activists list the number of deaths per year from firearms, they neglect to mention that 60% of the 30,000 figure they so often use are suicides. They also fail to mention that at least three quarters of the 12,000 homicides are criminals killing other criminals in disputes over illicit drugs, or police shooting criminals engaged in felonies. Subtracting those, we are left with no more than 3,000 deaths in the entire country that I think most would consider valid.

I have posted endless figures on this stuff in the past and if those said gun grabbers don't like people going off about what others would like to do to them for attempting take their guns maybe they should just back the **** off.
Without operant and classical conditioning techniques, American soldiers fired their guns at the enemy with an intent to kill 15-20% of the time in WWII.

Everyone blusters they'll be a part of that 15-20% when a situation pops up, but the facts bear that out as bullshit, and you apparently missed the point of my post, because the stats you use back that up too.

It's callow nut flexing, and you are still as illiterate as always.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #86
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I agree with the stats however his point of training is undeniable. It should be a requirement that someone has real training before they can carry a gun in public. I read posts saying "keep your hands to yourself and you will not get shot" I just roll my eyes. We sure as **** don't need wannabe cowboy's packing in public~
I have no issues with people needing training to pack heat.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #87
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Without operant and classical conditioning techniques, American soldiers fired their guns at the enemy with an intent to kill 15-20% of the time in WWII.

Everyone blusters they'll be a part of that 15-20% when a situation pops up, but the facts bear that out as bullshit.
But what about the 15-20% you mention that are actually able to thwart crimes?

My library routinely throws away magazines, one of which is the North American Hunting Club, in almost every issue they have a section that features 10 or so newsclips from around the US where a citizen either saves themselves or someone else from harm.

The conditioning techniques you mention definitely make a difference in the amount of rounds fired to actually kill, but is that any cause to deny someone the right to atleast have that opportunity?

Just like you going out with the golf club a while back... what if you had actually encountered an armed man, or some huge SOB you couldnt handle on your own, wouldnt you have felt much better knowing you could drop him/them with a few shots from a distance, with your family just feet away?

Guns are not a scourge in law abiding hands, Hamas.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:26 PM   #88
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But what about the 15-20% you mention that are actually able to thwart crimes?

My library routinely throws away magazines, one of which is the North American Hunting Club, in almost every issue they have a section that features 10 or so newsclips from around the US where a citizen either saves themselves or someone else from harm.

The conditioning techniques you mention definitely make a difference in the amount of rounds fired to actually kill, but is that any cause to deny someone the right to atleast have that opportunity?

Just like you going out with the golf club a while back... what if you had actually encountered an armed man, or some huge SOB you couldnt handle on your own, wouldnt you have felt much better knowing you could drop him/them with a few shots from a distance, with your family just feet away?

Guns are not a scourge in law abiding hands, Hamas.
Point me to a single post where I said guns were a scourge in law abiding hands.

This is a sad, but true epitome of a larger problem. People are intellectually incapable of having a discussion about guns, and there is no ****ing reason why that should happen.

Did you even read my post? You obviously didn't understand the point, so I'll restate it:

I'm not saying that guns make people less safe, nor am I saying that you shouldn't be allowed to own whatever you want. I am simply saying this: people who claim that they are going to clack someone up are, almost always, completely full of shit. You may pull your weapon, but even then, and again, stats bear this out, 80+% of the time you will be posturing. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It doesn't make it a poor decision. In fact, it's likely an excellent threat deterrent.

What it means is this: people aren't the killers they think they are, no matter how much they run their mouths about it.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Point me to a single post where I said guns were a scourge in law abiding hands.

This is a sad, but true epitome of a larger problem. People are intellectually incapable of having a discussion about guns, and there is no ****ing reason why that should happen.

Did you even read my post? You obviously didn't understand the point, so I'll restate it:

I'm not saying that guns make people less safe, nor am I saying that you shouldn't be allowed to own whatever you want. I am simply saying this: people who claim that they are going to clack someone up are, almost always, completely full of shit. You may pull your weapon, but even then, and again, stats bear this out, 80+% of the time you will be posturing. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It doesn't make it a poor decision. In fact, it's likely an excellent threat deterrent.

What it means is this: people aren't the killers they think they are, no matter how much they run their mouths about it.
I read your post, my problem was maybe not going back far enough into the discussion already under way... your last sentence definitely clarifies it, and i wouldnt argue that point at all.

It might make someone feel like a big hoss to whip one out, but i'm sure that say, maybe 85% of the time they dont actually intend to use it, that it just makes for an effective threat.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:52 PM   #90
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I read your post, my problem was maybe not going back far enough into the discussion already under way... your last sentence definitely clarifies it, and i wouldnt argue that point at all.

It might make someone feel like a big hoss to whip one out, but i'm sure that say, maybe 85% of the time they dont actually intend to use it, that it just makes for an effective threat.
And therein lies the bigger issue. It's become such an unnecessarily contentious debate in our society that everyone shuts down as soon as the topic is broached. It's worse than an abortion debate at this point.

An example: it's obvious that you can't eliminate the possession of guns. I understand the desire to from the perspective that you want to eliminate gun violence, but doing so wouldn't work, and guns have additional utility beyond shooting human beings. Prohibition of items is a fool's errand. However, people have become so radicalized on both sides that an idea like further screening for people with mental health issues or past violent felony convictions is somehow seen as a gun grab. If you aren't schizophrenic and you haven't knocked off a bank, is that screening going to make it more difficult for you to get a gun? If not, what's the real downside?

And you know what, even if it is two percent more effective than not having it, that makes it more difficult for dangerous, violent assholes to get guns, and I don't see how that is a bad thing.

On the other hand, propositions capping magazine sizes are well-intentioned but ineffective. If you're determined to shoot up a school, it's not all that difficult to make a few jungle clips.

But both sides are so entrenched in their positions that an attempt a dialogue doesn't just fail, it's not even attempted. Our society is literally incapable of even having the discussion. Not solving the problem. Having the discussion. And that is regoddamneddiculous.
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'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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