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Old 08-11-2013, 04:24 PM  
Bambi Bambi is offline
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Religious weirdos have to be rescued at sea

And Obama is still the bad guy, lol

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:19 PM   #61
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Namaste.
I had to look it up. I won't forget it.

I'm honored.

Shalom shalom.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:28 AM   #62
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Just because God knows the future doesn't mean you do not have free will........that is what you fail to grasp.
LOL... actually, that's exactly what it means... predestination disqualifies free will...

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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
If you and I are playing chess, and I know what move you are making next....you still have free will and play the move on your own?
If you know what move I'm making next, then it's not possible that I have free will. How could you say that both possibilities exist simultaneously? That I'm free to choose 2 different choices, and that you know the choice which will be chosen? LOL...

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If I know my child will fall down the steps, but I allow it to happen so he will learn steps are dangerous.....that is free will of the child, right?
Allow it to happen?

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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
If I know what you are having for dinner next saturday, and you make it, that doesnt mean I took your free will away, right?
Yes, that does. If you knew, then I lacked the choice of choosing something different at the time.

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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
What you are saying is simply not a fact. Just because someone KNOWS the outcome of something does not mean that free will didn't take place. Maybe you believe that is the definition, but I do not agree...and I would urge you do to further study on the issue as well.
You didn't google "The argument of free will" did you? I urge that you actually look this up, and become educated for yourself. This is certainly not my idea. Get over your ignorance, and investigate the quoted term. Come back and tell me how many educated people agree with what you're saying in this post.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #63
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Belief that you shouldn't tempt God. I find the concept utterly silly, and nobody seems to have any explanation for why it would be necessary, other than pointing out another scripture confirming it.

From my understanding, the devil is challenging Jesus's faith. Jesus is saying "No, I have faith, I just can't really demonstrate that faith in certain ways, like what you're asking." Which includes any manner that would absolutely require direct divine intervention. That seems to be conveniently off the table, despite being told in numerous ways that faith can do anything, even move mountains. But yet, here's one very clear example of where faith can't be depended on and there's no explanation for why. The only explanation is "Well duh, you shouldn't try that." It's just a convenient way of saying "Well God is there you can trust in that, but you can't try anything to that would actually physically reveal his presence, because he won't."

The fact that you admit to yourself that God wouldn't actually save you if you jumped off a building, should be an internal indicator that your belief and faith has very real and defined limits. But believers just completely ignore that and have no justification for why they do, other than saying "Welp.... faith.." How do you look that fact in the face, and still tell yourself "He wouldn't physically save me from danger when I needed it, but that other stuff is still totally legit."

And for the record, I don't really believe in the free will doctrine. It simply doesn't add up. If free will exists, then God cannot be omniscient. And vice versa. There's just no way to logically pair the two.

If you believe there actually is an afterlife of eternal bliss, then why bother with this Earthly shithole in the first place? Why wouldn't you want to leave and go to heavenly utopia as soon as possible?
The devil doesn't dictate what GOD does and it states in other passages many will want *proof* through miracles and they will not come for this cause. Would it still be faith if GOD came down and performed miracles in front of you? GOD does not want an army of robots, if he did he would have done things differently.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #64
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:09 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
The devil doesn't dictate what GOD does and it states in other passages many will want *proof* through miracles and they will not come for this cause. Would it still be faith if GOD came down and performed miracles in front of you? GOD does not want an army of robots, if he did he would have done things differently.
by fish's logic, his own child doesn't love him .
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:11 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I figure God exists outside of the constraints of time as we experience and measure it. He is the uncreated creator. He is both the alpha and the omega simultaneously. He identifies himself as I am that I am, always god in the present tense. The past, present and future are all the same to him. He has already seen the next free choice I will make. The choice is mine; All creation is his. His is a "now" that far exceeds the petty bounds of anything as weak as logic.
Amen! I've mentioned something along these lines in the past...time isn't linear for God, He sees all on a curve...four to ten dimensions possible...
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #67
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I figure God exists outside of the constraints of time as we experience and measure it. He is the uncreated creator. He is both the alpha and the omega simultaneously. He identifies himself as I am that I am, always god in the present tense. The past, present and future are all the same to him. He has already seen the next free choice I will make. The choice is mine; All creation is his. His is a "now" that far exceeds the petty bounds of anything as weak as logic.
GOD always speaks in absolutes, as did Jesus. Jesus never really asked a question or said should be, possibly, maybe. Funny how this world seems to be following the Satan blueprint of could be, possibly, maybe. You can eat the fruit..for you won't really die....
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
Matthew 4:5-7 ESV

Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I figure God exists outside of the constraints of time as we experience and measure it. He is the uncreated creator. He is both the alpha and the omega simultaneously. He identifies himself as I am that I am, always god in the present tense. The past, present and future are all the same to him. He has already seen the next free choice I will make. The choice is mine; All creation is his. His is a "now" that far exceeds the petty bounds of anything as weak as logic.
I think approaching it by simply saying "Well he's so special that the rules don't apply" is kind of a cop out. That's just a gibberish way of avoiding the question.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #70
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by fish's logic, his own child doesn't love him .
Please don't ever attempt to judge my love for my child. Because you don't have a clue.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #71
ClevelandBronco ClevelandBronco is offline
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I think approaching it by simply saying "Well he's so special that the rules don't apply" is kind of a cop out. That's just a gibberish way of avoiding the question.
That's just a gibberish way of avoiding an answer that destroys your question, Fish.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:02 AM   #72
ClevelandBronco ClevelandBronco is offline
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Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
Mustard seed faith must have seemed small to Jesus. For a flawed child like me, mustard seed faith is larger than the mountains I could move.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I think approaching it by simply saying "Well he's so special that the rules don't apply" is kind of a cop out. That's just a gibberish way of avoiding the question.
You think you understand all the rules? That seems unjustifiably arrogant to me.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #74
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Please don't ever attempt to judge my love for my child. Because you don't have a clue.
You misread his post.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:16 AM   #75
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That's just a gibberish way of avoiding an answer that destroys your question, Fish.
It's called "Special Pleading" and its a logical fallacy.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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