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Old 08-17-2013, 12:01 PM  
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Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

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http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2...s-not-genetic/

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Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated.

“No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other.

“These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

“Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

“Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

“Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I agree that such an argument does not prove one to be a racist. However, in most cases, there isn't correlation between whether one has black friends and whether that same person holds racial biases. Therefore the evidential value of this argument is weak. This is the reason that the argument is ridiculed and even considered as further evidence of a lack of sensitivity on the part of the person who forwards it.

http://ideas.time.com/2012/04/09/the...black-defense/
I think we need to be a bit skeptical of how far that scholarship takes us. There's a difference between conscious, virulent racism and the kind of "racial bias" that someone like Jesse Jackson admits to having when he's walking alone on a dark street and hears footsteps. Are we going to say that Jesse Jackson is racist against black people just because he admits to having bias under some circumstances? Of course not.

Generally speaking, I reject the notion that people are justified to ridicule that argument or take it as evidence of a lack of sensitivity.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:44 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
The zealots who cant leave this issue alone should just let God handle the judging, its not their place.
I never understood the religious who shun homosexuals. Think its a sin.

If they were born that way, didn't God make them?
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I think that's definitely one of the issues and I agree with you on it.

But there is another issue and that is the issue of how our society should deal with homosexuality. Should we treat it as taboo? Should we tolerate it as long as it's practiced clandestinely? Or should we accept it as an open lifestyle? And no matter where you come down on that spectrum, there are all kinds of details that need to be resolved at the legislative (as opposed to Constitutional) level.
You're overthinking it. In reality, we should all just not give a **** about sexual orientation at all.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:24 PM   #109
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Why can't I have multiple wives in 2013? It's an outrage. They allow it in the Bible.

I want more bitches, dammit!!
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:27 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I never understood the religious who shun homosexuals. Think its a sin.

If they were born that way, didn't God make them?
And that is why some of them strongly believe it is a choice, because if they are born that way it would mean God made them that way (while saying it is a sin). This is a contradiction that they can't accept, so they won't even entertain the idea that it may not be a choice.

This is the whole reason there is a debate in this country over whether they are born gay or made a choice.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:32 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I never understood the religious who shun homosexuals. Think its a sin.

If they were born that way, didn't God make them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
And that is why some of them strongly believe it is a choice, because if they are born that way it would mean God made them that way (while saying it is a sin). This is a contradiction that they can't accept, so they won't even entertain the idea that it may not be a choice.

This is the whole reason there is a debate in this country over whether they are born gay or made a choice.
Every one of us, created of God, possess innate desires and weaknesses. Fetishes, 7 deadly sins, addictions. Some nurtured and socialized to a greater or lesser degree. Doesn't mean we're at liberty to indulge them all consequence free. Doesn't mean we're not, but doesn't automatically mean they are because 'God put it in me' to desire this or that.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:43 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Every one of us, created of God, possess innate desires and weaknesses. Fetishes, 7 deadly sins, addictions. Some nurtured and socialized to a greater or lesser degree. Doesn't mean we're at liberty to indulge them all consequence free. Doesn't mean we're not, but doesn't automatically mean they are because 'God put it in me' to desire this or that.
Doesn't mean there is even a God. You have a right to your beliefs. But you don't have a right to discriminate against others because they don't measure up to your belief system.
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Doesn't mean there is even a God. You have a right to your beliefs. But you don't have a right to discriminate against others because they don't measure up to your belief system.
Pretty ironically loaded sentence in this era, with redistribution of wealth and 'nudging' citizens into 'better' behavior all the rage.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:04 PM   #114
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Pretty ironically loaded sentence in this era, with redistribution of wealth and 'nudging' citizens into 'better' behavior all the rage.
I'm against using the government to change people's behavior, so what the **** is your point?

I'm also against basing government laws on religious beliefs.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:43 PM   #115
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I'm against using the government to change people's behavior, so what the **** is your point?

I'm also against basing government laws on religious beliefs.
Well that escalated quickly. What's next, killing a guy with trident?
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:36 AM   #116
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Well that escalated quickly. What's next, killing a guy with trident?
You make no sense.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:52 AM   #117
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You make no sense.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:20 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
Every one of us, created of God, possess innate desires and weaknesses. Fetishes, 7 deadly sins, addictions. Some nurtured and socialized to a greater or lesser degree. Doesn't mean we're at liberty to indulge them all consequence free. Doesn't mean we're not, but doesn't automatically mean they are because 'God put it in me' to desire this or that.
What if you were created in a laboratory?

How much influence/credit would a higher power receive? I'm feeling 60-40 but I'm sure we (as a species) can negotiate on this.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:28 AM   #119
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What if you were created in a laboratory?

How much influence/credit would a higher power receive? I'm feeling 60-40 but I'm sure we (as a species) can negotiate on this.
What if the Moon WERE made of Cheese? What if THEY LIVE was based in reality? What if...what if....
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:39 AM   #120
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What if the Moon WERE made of Cheese? What if THEY LIVE was based in reality? What if...what if....
If the Moon were in fact made of cheese, it would A) Likely melt and even more likely B) be consumed by Will Ferrell.
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