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Old 08-21-2013, 07:17 PM  
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Emergency Meeting of UN Sec Council as Syria kills @ 1000 incl children with Sarin

UN has 'strong concern' over reports of hundreds killed in Syria chemicals weapons attacks

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...s-attacks?lite

By Richard Engel, Alastair Jamieson and Ghazi Balkiz, NBC News
The U.N. Security Council said Wednesday it was necessary to clarify reports from Syria's opposition that hundreds of civilians – including many women and children – have been killed in chemical weapons attacks.
The council, however, stopped short of demanding a probe by U.N. investigators in Syria -- although said it welcomed U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon's calls for one.
"There is a strong concern among council members about the allegations and a general sense that there must be clarity on what happened and the situation must be followed closely," Argentina's U.N. ambassador, Maria Cristina Perceval said following the emergency meeting.


Activists and rebel fighters accused Syrian President Bashar Assad’s forces of firing chemical-tipped weapons into rebel-held areas near the capital, Damascus, in the early hours.
The Obama administration "strongly condemned" the reported use of the weapons which, if confirmed, would be by far the worst known use of poison gas during the country’s deadly civil war.

The White House called for Assad to allow an immediate and transparent U.N. investigation of the incident.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Wednesday that a U.N. team is on the ground in Syria to conduct the investigation and acknowledged that the United States does not have independent confirmation that chemical weapons were used.

“We are hopeful that the Assad regime will follow through on what they have claimed previously, that they are interested in a credible investigation that gets to the bottom of reports that chemical weapons have been used,” Earnest said.

Videos apparently showing the graphic and disturbing aftermath of the alleged attacks on the rebel-held eastern Damascus suburb of Ghouta were posted to social media but could not be independently verified. The clips showed children choking and vomiting, while adults writhed in agony.
State television denied the opposition claims, which it said were disseminated deliberately to distract United Nations chemical weapons experts who arrived in the country on Monday.

Musab abu Qutada, a spokesman for the local military council of the Free Syria Army, who is in the area near where the attacks took place, said the death toll had reached more than 1,200. NBC News could not verify the claim.
Several towns and villages to the east and north of the capital were attacked by surface-to-surface missiles beginning around 2 a.m. Wednesday (7 p.m. Tuesday ET), the rebel spokesman said.

Syrian activists inspect the bodies of people they say were killed by nerve gas in the Ghouta region near Damascus on Wednesday.

“The deceased and the wounded are in field hospitals,” he said in a Skype interview. “We have about 1,228 victims. We are in need of medicine. We are in need of medical staff.”
The “chemical bombardment” was so strong that doctors at the scene had also died from the effects of the gas, he said.
“There were some symptoms like numbing of the body, constricted pupils of the eye, foam coming out of the mouth, paleness of faces, shortness of breath," he said.
“The areas that were targeted were civilian areas, they are not military areas. They targeted women and children to apply pressure on the Free Syrian Army.”

The gas was heavy and sunk into basements, witnesses told NBC News. Some people lit tires on fire, hoping the smoke from the burning tires would offset the gas. The black smoke, however, only created more chaos and panic.
A doctor said some victims reported smelling a faint odor of insecticide at the time of the rocket attacks. Most of the victims were sleeping when the attacks took place.

The first rocket assaults on the eastern villages lasted roughly an hour; then, villages to the north began to be attacked in the same way -- surface-to-surface rockets that exploded to release a poison gas.

Conflicting death tolls from different sources could not immediately be reconciled by NBC News. Witness accounts are impossible to verify because Syria does not allow journalists to operate freely inside its borders.
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The opposition Local Coordination Committees in Syria put the death toll at more than 755, saying several areas had been hit by “shelling with poisonous gases.”

It said the areas hit included Ein Tarma and Zamalka in eastern Ghouta and Mouadamieh in western Ghouta.

Susan Ahmad, who lives just over one mile from the areas, described a smell in the air and reported having burning, red eyes and dizziness after the attacks.


“There is a very strange smell and it’s a very ugly one,” she told NBC News’ U.K. partner ITV News. “It’s nasty. You feel like there is something wrong in the air."

She added: “The death toll is likely to be higher and higher because don’t have enough [medicine] to save lives.”

Bayan Baker, a nurse at a field hospital in Douma, told Reuters that the death toll from the attack, collated from medical centers in the region, was 213.

"Many of the casualties are women and children. They arrived with their pupils dilated, cold limbs and foam in their mouths. The doctors say these are typical symptoms of nerve gas victims," she said.

NBC News' Charlene Gubash, Ammar Cheikhomar and Becky Bratu, ITV News' Fadah Jassem and Juliet Bremner, and Reuters contributed to this report.


WARNING IMAGES ARE GRAPHIC OF CHILDREN DYING/DEAD



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Old 08-26-2013, 12:16 AM   #136
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:15 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Who are the good guys, that have any realistic chance of getting popular support in Syria Pat?

If you can answer that I wont call you a ****ing moron for the bolded part.
Pats style of intervention has supported al aqeada for decades

Last edited by Chocolate Hog; 08-26-2013 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:24 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
Pats style of intervention has supported al aqeada for decades
But t's good for the GOP. Just ask him. He's sure of it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:02 AM   #139
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Whose mult is this?
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:38 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Who are the good guys, that have any realistic chance of getting popular support in Syria Pat?

If you can answer that I wont call you a ****ing moron for the bolded part.
The radical Islamists like al Qaeda weren't always dominant parts of the Syrian opposition. In the early days of the insurgency, more moderate elements were serious players. Obama made the decision to stand on the sidelines (or at best lead from behind) and let Turkey's PM Erdogan, an Islamist himself, take the lead role in arming and organizing the Syrian rebels. As a result, the lion's share of the aid/weapons went to Islamist factions and veteran Islamist foreign fighters (e.g. al Qaeda) were drawn to the conflict. Naturally, these better equipped, more experienced groups eventually achieved dominance among the opposition elements.

Which brings us to today when it is probably too late to find an attractive, strong partner in Syria. Earlier leadership and intervention in the form of aid, weapons, intel, and advice/training (as opposed to invasion) would have given the moderate elements of the opposition the best chance of both toppling the Assad regime and maintaining control of the aftermath.

If you're looking for a specific group of "good guys" (from our point of view) as an example, I'd give you the Syrian Kurds. Kurds were our most reliable allies during our Iraq experience. According to wiki, they're the largest ethnic minority in Syria. Unfortunately, Turkey has an interest in preventing Kurds from becoming more powerful so they were largely shut out when western aid was distributed and many of them are now fleeing the country.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:41 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
Pats style of intervention has supported al aqeada for decades
Please continue. I'm a big fan of fiction, but storytelling is key too and I'm not sure you've got it in you.
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:41 AM   #142
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But t's good for the GOP. Just ask him. He's sure of it.
What's good for the GOP?
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:08 AM   #143
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What's good for the GOP?
Not you.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #144
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Not you.
OK, well that's a top notch take. Good argument.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:18 PM   #145
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OK, well that's a top notch take. Good argument.
No problem. We already established that your ideas ruined the party the last decade, and it hasn't recovered at the national level at all. Locally and at the State level however, it works! This should prove to you that your conservatism is a colossal failure, while mine can work.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:42 PM   #146
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No problem. We already established that your ideas ruined the party the last decade, and it hasn't recovered at the national level at all. Locally and at the State level however, it works! This should prove to you that your conservatism is a colossal failure, while mine can work.
No, I don't think we've established that. In fact, it's pretty clear to me that you don't even know what my ideas are given the false attributions you've advanced in the past.

And I'm not sure I understand your ideas either, aside from your distaste for gay people and John McCain.

Do you have anything to say about your own position on Syria or US foreign policy in general?
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:34 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post


If you're looking for a specific group of "good guys" (from our point of view) as an example, I'd give you the Syrian Kurds.
So let me understand you correctly. You want us to overthrow Assad and have the United States of America forcibly turn power over to the Kurds in SYria?

How should Obama have supported the Kurds and helped them overthrow Assad AND the Sunnis?


LOL

Really?

Thats the "move" Obama is an idiot for not doing?

Ok....
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:39 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
So let me understand you correctly. You want us to overthrow Assad and have the United States of America forcibly turn power over to the Kurds in SYria?


LOL

Really?

Thats the "move" Obama is an idiot for not doing?

Ok....
WTF is wrong with you? Are you not bothering to read?

In a conflict between people who can be useful and friendly to us (allies) against those who have proven though their actions that they are a threat to our interests (enemies), I'm in favor of aiding our allies except, possibly, when the cause is hopeless. When this was still possible in Syria, Obama went golfing. Now that it's much less possible, it's too late. That's what I'm criticizing Obama for.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:43 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Please continue. I'm a big fan of fiction, but storytelling is key too and I'm not sure you've got it in you.
Afghanistan 1980s and libya/syria 2013.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:47 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
How should Obama have supported the Kurds and helped them overthrow Assad AND the Sunnis?
I never said we should have supported the Kurds in an effort to overthrow the Sunnis. I used the Kurds as a specific EXAMPLE of a group of people who were opposed to Assad who weren't radical Islamists. There are Sunni moderates too, as evidenced by the Anbar Awakening in Iraq.

And in anticipation of another misreading, I'm not saying Obama should have hired the Anbar Sunnis to move to Syria and fight Assad. They are another EXAMPLE of Sunnis who are not radical Islamists.
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