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Old 08-21-2013, 07:17 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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Emergency Meeting of UN Sec Council as Syria kills @ 1000 incl children with Sarin

UN has 'strong concern' over reports of hundreds killed in Syria chemicals weapons attacks

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...s-attacks?lite

By Richard Engel, Alastair Jamieson and Ghazi Balkiz, NBC News
The U.N. Security Council said Wednesday it was necessary to clarify reports from Syria's opposition that hundreds of civilians – including many women and children – have been killed in chemical weapons attacks.
The council, however, stopped short of demanding a probe by U.N. investigators in Syria -- although said it welcomed U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon's calls for one.
"There is a strong concern among council members about the allegations and a general sense that there must be clarity on what happened and the situation must be followed closely," Argentina's U.N. ambassador, Maria Cristina Perceval said following the emergency meeting.


Activists and rebel fighters accused Syrian President Bashar Assad’s forces of firing chemical-tipped weapons into rebel-held areas near the capital, Damascus, in the early hours.
The Obama administration "strongly condemned" the reported use of the weapons which, if confirmed, would be by far the worst known use of poison gas during the country’s deadly civil war.

The White House called for Assad to allow an immediate and transparent U.N. investigation of the incident.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Wednesday that a U.N. team is on the ground in Syria to conduct the investigation and acknowledged that the United States does not have independent confirmation that chemical weapons were used.

“We are hopeful that the Assad regime will follow through on what they have claimed previously, that they are interested in a credible investigation that gets to the bottom of reports that chemical weapons have been used,” Earnest said.

Videos apparently showing the graphic and disturbing aftermath of the alleged attacks on the rebel-held eastern Damascus suburb of Ghouta were posted to social media but could not be independently verified. The clips showed children choking and vomiting, while adults writhed in agony.
State television denied the opposition claims, which it said were disseminated deliberately to distract United Nations chemical weapons experts who arrived in the country on Monday.

Musab abu Qutada, a spokesman for the local military council of the Free Syria Army, who is in the area near where the attacks took place, said the death toll had reached more than 1,200. NBC News could not verify the claim.
Several towns and villages to the east and north of the capital were attacked by surface-to-surface missiles beginning around 2 a.m. Wednesday (7 p.m. Tuesday ET), the rebel spokesman said.

Syrian activists inspect the bodies of people they say were killed by nerve gas in the Ghouta region near Damascus on Wednesday.

“The deceased and the wounded are in field hospitals,” he said in a Skype interview. “We have about 1,228 victims. We are in need of medicine. We are in need of medical staff.”
The “chemical bombardment” was so strong that doctors at the scene had also died from the effects of the gas, he said.
“There were some symptoms like numbing of the body, constricted pupils of the eye, foam coming out of the mouth, paleness of faces, shortness of breath," he said.
“The areas that were targeted were civilian areas, they are not military areas. They targeted women and children to apply pressure on the Free Syrian Army.”

The gas was heavy and sunk into basements, witnesses told NBC News. Some people lit tires on fire, hoping the smoke from the burning tires would offset the gas. The black smoke, however, only created more chaos and panic.
A doctor said some victims reported smelling a faint odor of insecticide at the time of the rocket attacks. Most of the victims were sleeping when the attacks took place.

The first rocket assaults on the eastern villages lasted roughly an hour; then, villages to the north began to be attacked in the same way -- surface-to-surface rockets that exploded to release a poison gas.

Conflicting death tolls from different sources could not immediately be reconciled by NBC News. Witness accounts are impossible to verify because Syria does not allow journalists to operate freely inside its borders.
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The opposition Local Coordination Committees in Syria put the death toll at more than 755, saying several areas had been hit by “shelling with poisonous gases.”

It said the areas hit included Ein Tarma and Zamalka in eastern Ghouta and Mouadamieh in western Ghouta.

Susan Ahmad, who lives just over one mile from the areas, described a smell in the air and reported having burning, red eyes and dizziness after the attacks.


“There is a very strange smell and it’s a very ugly one,” she told NBC News’ U.K. partner ITV News. “It’s nasty. You feel like there is something wrong in the air."

She added: “The death toll is likely to be higher and higher because don’t have enough [medicine] to save lives.”

Bayan Baker, a nurse at a field hospital in Douma, told Reuters that the death toll from the attack, collated from medical centers in the region, was 213.

"Many of the casualties are women and children. They arrived with their pupils dilated, cold limbs and foam in their mouths. The doctors say these are typical symptoms of nerve gas victims," she said.

NBC News' Charlene Gubash, Ammar Cheikhomar and Becky Bratu, ITV News' Fadah Jassem and Juliet Bremner, and Reuters contributed to this report.


WARNING IMAGES ARE GRAPHIC OF CHILDREN DYING/DEAD



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Old 08-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #91
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I really want to agree with that, and have said very similar things in the past... but jeeez, they're gassing babies, doesn't the world have an obligation to stop it?

And by world, i do mean the world, if the rest of them cant fully commit, then no, we shouldn't have to fix it all.
Isreal kills babies should we blow them up too?

Throw this regime out you end up with Al Aqeada synpathizers running Syria. This isn't the United States war to fight.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:48 PM   #92
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Your elected representatives in all their esteemed glory decided that we needed to go to war in all those places. We have trade interests yes but those interests don't need to be backed up by the point of a gun. The US government is not there to be the stick behind American businesses. So send your kid to die to protect the property of American businesses because the elected representatives that you hold in high esteem decided that is a higher priority then the life or health of the populace.

The Soviets would of collapsed with or without American intervention. In fact the further they expanded their holdings the faster it would of happened. The Soviet economy only worked because of the massive black market and shadow economy within the CCCP.




And if we didn't try to stick our nose in everybody's business and play world cop. We wouldn't have much backlash.



If we would of stayed out of the business in the Middle East, Osama would of stayed targeting the Saudi regime instead of the US.



Who would be stupid enough to do that? America is the largest economy in the world. You make more money trading with us then raiding us.



Buyer beware. If the company guesses that such a government is stable enough to not do so and guesses wrong why should blood and treasure be spent on a private companies gamble?



If you haven't noticed we are broke. We are heavy in debt. Part of that is social spending and part of that is our overseas adventurism and military spending. You know why the taxes were levied on the colonists that eventually led them to rebellion? It was because the British government was broke due to their overseas wars against France.
Yes, I'm well aware of the utopian religion built around Ron Paul's isolationism and I'm not buying it. There is certainly some value in not making unnecessary enemies and in limiting military force to the defense of vital national interests, but you take this way too far.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:11 PM   #93
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Yes, I'm well aware of the utopian religion built around Ron Paul's isolationism and I'm not buying it. There is certainly some value in not making unnecessary enemies and in limiting military force to the defense of vital national interests, but you take this way too far.
What national interest would be served in getting involved in the Syrian civil war? None that I can see. What national interest was served in getting involved in the Serbian civil war? None. What national interest was served in ousting Saddam? None. In fact, you can say that is has driven Turkey, who was once our staunchest ally in the Muslim world farther away from us.

Mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself is good advice for people and for states.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
What national interest would be served in getting involved in the Syrian civil war? None that I can see. What national interest was served in getting involved in the Serbian civil war? None. What national interest was served in ousting Saddam? None. In fact, you can say that is has driven Turkey, who was once our staunchest ally in the Muslim world farther away from us.

Mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself is good advice for people and for states.
I told you, I'm not the advocate for every war on your list.

I happen to think we had a vital national interest in Iraq given Saddam's antipathy toward us, his lack of cooperation with conditions imposed on him after the first gulf war, the fact that sanctions were crumbling and would soon fail, and his history of collaborating with terrorists including elements at the very top of the al Qaeda organization. You'll have to talk to someone else about the others.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:43 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I told you, I'm not the advocate for every war on your list.

I happen to think we had a vital national interest in Iraq given Saddam's antipathy toward us, his lack of cooperation with conditions imposed on him after the first gulf war, the fact that sanctions were crumbling and would soon fail, and his history of collaborating with terrorists including elements at the very top of the al Qaeda organization. You'll have to talk to someone else about the others.

I think you missed your calling as Dick Cheney's PR rep. Is he your dad or uncle or something?
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:47 PM   #96
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I think you missed your calling as Dick Cheney's PR rep. Is he your dad or uncle or something?
Why'd you bold that one?
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:46 AM   #97
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I told you, I'm not the advocate for every war on your list.

I happen to think we had a vital national interest in Iraq given Saddam's antipathy toward us, his lack of cooperation with conditions imposed on him after the first gulf war, the fact that sanctions were crumbling and would soon fail, and his history of collaborating with terrorists including elements at the very top of the al Qaeda organization. You'll have to talk to someone else about the others.
wow. It always amazes me how quickly people advocate sending our troops into war zones; maybe they justify their ideals by putting 'Support Our Troops' bumper stickers on the back of their minivans. It seems to me we're at a point as a society and nation where clamoring for war over any minute detail is the right thing to do (Iraq, Libya and coming soon Syria/Iran kicking off world war 3) . Case in point: justifying dropping bombs because someone feels "antipathy" towards us.

Last edited by Brian Jones; 08-23-2013 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:29 AM   #98
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wow. It always amazes me how quickly people advocate sending our troops into war zones; maybe they justify their ideals by putting 'Support Our Troops' bumper stickers on the back of their minivans. It seems to me we're at a point as a society and nation where clamoring for war over any minute detail is the right thing to do (Iraq, Libya and coming soon Syria/Iran kicking off world war 3) . Case in point: justifying dropping because someone feels "antipathy" towards us.
The antipathy isn't the problem, it's what he has shown himself willing to do in service of that antipathy and what he'd be capable of doing when sanctions failed that matters. I shouldn't expect a simpleton like you to be able to figure that out though, so I apologize for posting over your head.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #99
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The antipathy isn't the problem, it's what he has shown himself willing to do in service of that antipathy and what he'd be capable of doing when sanctions failed that matters. I shouldn't expect a simpleton like you to be able to figure that out though, so I apologize for posting over your head.
Let us not resort bringing into question a matter of pure intellect because, by the sheer evidence of your last few posts, you lack the cognitive capability to debate these topics. You have blatantly ignored facts and, in general, don't have a ****ing clue when it comes to foreign policies. Your very first "point" in advocating our war in Iraq was Saddam showing antipathy and a lack of concern for our sanctions post-Desert-Storm. These are YOUR words right from your keyboard. You can play spin doctor any way you wish and be smug behind your computer screen but that doesn't dispel the fact that these are your words. You're entitled to your idiotic opinions....they're as dim as you are.

good day.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:51 AM   #100
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Let us not resort bringing into question a matter of pure intellect because, by the sheer evidence of your last few posts, you lack the cognitive capability to debate these topics. You have blatantly ignored facts and, in general, don't have a ****ing clue when it comes to foreign policies. Your very first "point" in advocating our war in Iraq was Saddam showing antipathy and a lack of concern for our sanctions post-Desert-Storm. These are YOUR words right from your keyboard. You can play spin doctor any way you wish and be smug behind your computer screen but that doesn't dispel the fact that these are your words. You're entitled to your idiotic opinions....they're as dim as you are.

good day.
Yes, my words, which apparently went over your head.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #101
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Let us not resort bringing into question a matter of pure intellect because, by the sheer evidence of your last few posts, you lack the cognitive capability to debate these topics. You have blatantly ignored facts and, in general, don't have a ****ing clue when it comes to foreign policies. Your very first "point" in advocating our war in Iraq was Saddam showing antipathy and a lack of concern for our sanctions post-Desert-Storm. These are YOUR words right from your keyboard. You can play spin doctor any way you wish and be smug behind your computer screen but that doesn't dispel the fact that these are your words. You're entitled to your idiotic opinions....they're as dim as you are.

good day.
Whose mult is this?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:47 AM   #102
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I told you, I'm not the advocate for every war on your list.

I happen to think we had a vital national interest in Iraq given Saddam's antipathy toward us, his lack of cooperation with conditions imposed on him after the first gulf war, the fact that sanctions were crumbling and would soon fail, and his history of collaborating with terrorists including elements at the very top of the al Qaeda organization. You'll have to talk to someone else about the others.
None of that is vital national interest. Saddam wasn't about to attack our allies or the United States. Sanctions don't work and have never worked so I am not sure why anybody would be surprised they didn't in Iraq. Saddam was mostly concerned with a resurgent Iran then with the West. He wasn't going to give chemical or biological weapons to terrorist because he wanted them as a hedge against a nuclear Iran.

So, attacking Iraq was a waste of blood and treasure that has got us nothing except is satisfied some people's war boners for a while. Now that is winding up they are beating the drums for Syria. Need to keep those war boners from going soft.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:47 AM   #103
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is it a mult or just a noob with a different view of things?

or just a noob that is full of shit?

time will tell...
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:19 PM   #104
patteeu patteeu is offline
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None of that is vital national interest. Saddam wasn't about to attack our allies or the United States. Sanctions don't work and have never worked so I am not sure why anybody would be surprised they didn't in Iraq. Saddam was mostly concerned with a resurgent Iran then with the West. He wasn't going to give chemical or biological weapons to terrorist because he wanted them as a hedge against a nuclear Iran.

So, attacking Iraq was a waste of blood and treasure that has got us nothing except is satisfied some people's war boners for a while. Now that is winding up they are beating the drums for Syria. Need to keep those war boners from going soft.
We'll have to agree to disagree about what constitutes a vital interest. I've already told you I don't believe in the "be nice and no one will mess with you" philosophies of Ron Paul types. I believe in the idea that the world is like a prison yard with no guards and you can either control your own destiny or you can put yourself at the mercy of people who don't share your values.

Your confidence that Saddam was going to give up his long standing practice of collaborating with terrorism, of causing trouble in a region that's vital to us, and of doing what he could to damage the US isn't something I share.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #105
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is it a mult or just a noob with a different view of things?

or just a noob that is full of shit?

time will tell...
He's a guy who was thought to have died in his swimming pool decades ago, but apparently survived with significant brain damage.
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