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View Poll Results: Does congress need to declare war on Syria before using military force on Syria?
Yes, congress needs to declare war before we strike Syria. 37 62.71%
No, congress does not need to authorize military action in Syria. 22 37.29%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:49 PM  
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DOes the congress need to declare war before military action in Syria?

Simple question:

Does the congress need to declare war on the official Government inSyria before we hit them with our missiles and Air Force...

Or should the president be able to attack another country without this authorization?

(poll coming)
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He shouldn't have drawn a red line that he couldn't back up. He shouldn't have dithered while al Qaeda and other anti-western Islamists gained more power within the opposition. He shouldn't have put himself and our country into a situation where there aren't any good choices. He's a trainwreck.
It's fair to say that no matter he does it will not matter. As Zach said you will have the same outcome, just a different way of condemning.

I laugh that you think he could have done anything without drawing your scathing criticism. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that him jumping on a podium and saying sweet condemnations would have gained us that international credibility that you feel we lost.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:01 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
It's fair to say that no matter he does it will not matter. As Zach said you will have the same outcome, just a different way of condemning.

I laugh that you think he could have done anything without drawing your scathing criticism. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt that him jumping on a podium and saying sweet condemnations would have gained us that international credibility that you feel we lost.
The way to retain whatever respect and credibility he had with the world's thugs and terrorists would be for him to make good on his word, or not to have uttered such a word.

Last year when he drew his imaginary red lines, he made the decision to gamble on talking tough. It was a political decision based on a calculation that Syria wouldn't challenge him. But his bluff was called, and we can see now that he's not willing to follow through.

The correct thing would have been to not let your mouth write a check that you aren't willing to cash.

Personally, I think we are seeing that Obama probably would have been willing to act on his own if it weren't polling poorly.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:03 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
The way to retain whatever respect and credibility he had with the world's thugs and terrorists would be for him to make good on his word, or not to have uttered such a word.

Last year when he drew his imaginary red lines, he made the decision to gamble on talking tough. It was a political decision based on a calculation that Syria wouldn't challenge him. But his bluff was called, and we can see now that he's not willing to follow through.

The correct thing would have been to not let your mouth write a check that you aren't willing to cash.

Personally, I think we are seeing that Obama probably would have been willing to act on his own if it weren't polling poorly.
He's a lame duck president with a gridlocked congress. I sincerely doubt that he gives a rats ass about polling at this point.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:07 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
He's a lame duck president with a gridlocked congress. I sincerely doubt that he gives a rats ass about polling at this point.

You cannot possibly believe that.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:08 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
You cannot possibly believe that.
You cannot possibly believe otherwise. Be Honest chieffan.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:08 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
You cannot possibly believe otherwise. Be Honest chieffan.
What happened to "I won", "Elections have consequences", the man who had no problem using reconciliation to skip over Congress, etc etc?
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:11 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
What happened to "I won", "Elections have consequences", the man who had no problem using reconciliation to skip over Congress, etc etc?
He has 3 choices: Do everything the GOP wants, do nothing because gop is gridlocking congress or find a way to do something.

Neither of the 3 is overwhelmingly pleasant in relation to the constitution.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:13 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
He shouldn't have drawn a red line that he couldn't back up. He shouldn't have dithered while al Qaeda and other anti-western Islamists gained more power within the opposition. He shouldn't have put himself and our country into a situation where there aren't any good choices. He's a trainwreck.
You speak of these things (and I'm including Egypt) as if the US president has some magical control over who decides to revolt against these dictatorships and how they do it. You honestly seem to think that if Obama would have just SAID the exact right words at the precise moment in time, all the chaos in Egypt and Syria would have been avoided.

Now you're apparently trying to describe some "thread the needle" scenario where Obama should have started bombing, but at some special point in time where the Syrian opposition was made up of US-loving freedom fighters and not sullied by AQ and other undesirables. It's really quite delusional.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:13 PM   #114
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Shoe is on the other foot.

The Obots are spinning.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:18 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
He has 3 choices: Do everything the GOP wants, do nothing because gop is gridlocking congress or find a way to do something.

Neither of the 3 is overwhelmingly pleasant in relation to the constitution.
He could strike any moment he wants to. He said that himself, and no reasonable person would disagree.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:19 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post

It's definitely more challenging than just being for whatever Obama is for at the moment.
One small sentence just describe every Obama supporter.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:20 PM   #117
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Obama did the right thing here.

But it's laughable to not admit a US president that draws a red line when it comes to using WMD on civilians is crossed, and then can't get international community backup or act himself shows lack of leadership.

I wouldn't necessarily want to cross any red line Putin laid down.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:21 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
You speak of these things (and I'm including Egypt) as if the US president has some magical control over who decides to revolt against these dictatorships and how they do it. You honestly seem to think that if Obama would have just SAID the exact right words at the precise moment in time, all the chaos in Egypt and Syria would have been avoided.

Now you're apparently trying to describe some "thread the needle" scenario where Obama should have started bombing, but at some special point in time where the Syrian opposition was made up of US-loving freedom fighters and not sullied by AQ and other undesirables. It's really quite delusional.

Sort of fun watching this Patteau pile on but I need clarification....

As I understand it Patteau supports a strike against Syria.

Obama wants to strike Syria. He has put the final decision on Congress but he is asking for them to give him the go ahead.

That then in many ways puts Patteau on Obama's side however he is critical of the process, the fiddle farting around, the indecision and the telegraphing of the attack plan that has gone on for what feels like an eternity.

Cosmo is always on Obamas side and will support anything. Had Obama attacked it would have been a worldclass attack executed to perfection.

So what are you two fighting about...
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:26 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Obama did the right thing here.

But it's laughable to not admit a US president that draws a red line when it comes to using WMD on civilians is crossed, and then can't get international community backup or act himself shows lack of leadership.

I wouldn't necessarily want to cross any red line Putin laid down.
The signal this sends to our allies is chilling. Obama's commitments have no value. Any pledge of support has to be seen as hollow and insincere. If the man offers up threats and redlines then has no plan in place to back it up? Are you kidding me? He should have had all the ducks in a row long ago. All this time since the line was drawn and what effort did he put into getting his options defined and approved? None. He should have defined the alternatives, presented his contingency plans and had each approved and sitting on ready.

Pathetic really. But at least he is consistent.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:35 PM   #120
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No, I'm saying we (by which I mean you and the rest of the majority who voted for Obama) voted for international weakness and a lack of leadership and that's what we got. Thanks, JDiddy.
I'm confused about why you are upset. Is this like junior high where the USA kid is getting made fun of on the playground? You'd rather we were the 250-lb bully who often snaps and all the other kids tremble and pee themselves when we get near?

I mean, come on. Our gigantic military empire is an enormous waste of resources, and we can defend ourselves just fine without bombing every 3rd country in the middle-east who dares to say something provocative. Why should you care about our image in the world? Does it impact your life at all?
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