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Old 08-29-2013, 12:54 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Oh hell. Assad may NOT have been involved? Really?

Cluster****. Thats what Obama is and what he runs. A Cluster****.

Intel. They used to gather intel to help guide a decision process. Sorta like market research. Seems Obama has his own shoot from the hip based on his media needs style that does not use Intel.

Check this shit...So we are about to cruise missile them for 3 nights of high ratings TV while our own Intel says wait up here...Assad may not be the bad guy in this gas thing after all? What?



WASHINGTON (AP) — The intelligence linking Syrian President Bashar Assad or his inner circle to an alleged chemical weapons attack is no “slam dunk,” with questions remaining about who actually controls some of Syria’s chemical weapons stores and doubts about whether Assad himself ordered the strike, U.S. intelligence officials say.

President Barack Obama declared unequivocally Wednesday that the Syrian government was responsible, while laying the groundwork for an expected U.S. military strike.

“We have concluded that the Syrian government in fact carried these out,” Obama said in an interview with “NewsHour” on PBS. “And if that’s so, then there need to be international consequences.” [...]

An intercept of Syrian military officials discussing the strike was among low-level staff, with no direct evidence tying the attack back to an Assad insider or even a senior Syrian commander, the officials said.

So while Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that links between the attack and the Assad government are “undeniable,” U.S. intelligence officials are not so certain that the suspected chemical attack was carried out on Assad’s orders, or even completely sure it was carried out by government forces, the officials said. [...]

Another possibility that officials would hope to rule out: that stocks had fallen out of the government’s control and were deployed by rebels in a callous and calculated attempt to draw the West into the war.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...08-29-03-11-56
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:21 AM   #46
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Doesn't seem so crazy to imagine that some of the jihadist rebels did this to get things stirred up, they've justified killing their own many times if it furthers "the cause".
That's not really what this report means though. I believe we have strong confidence that this attack was launched by government forces (as opposed to rebels), based at least in part on the intercepted phone call. What we can't do is tie Assad or his highest level advisers personally to the attack with CSI-level certainty. That means there's a chance that this attack was a rogue operation ordered by some low level commander instead of a conscious escalation ordered by leader of the regime.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:25 AM   #47
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That's not really what this report means though. I believe we have strong confidence that this attack was launched by government forces (as opposed to rebels), based at least in part on the intercepted phone call. What we can't do is tie Assad or his highest level advisers personally to the attack with CSI-level certainty. That means there's a chance that this attack was a rogue operation ordered by some low level commander instead of a conscious escalation ordered by leader of the regime.
I think both Assad and the rebels are capable and willing to use sarin gas if they thought it would advance their cause. Now, look at whose cause is advanced by this sarin gas attack.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:27 AM   #48
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One of the biggest problems is that the best anti-Assad organization over there is the Al Quada one. Unfortunately, they're tough, experienced (from Iraq), and disciplined. They're also not repeating their mistakes from prior wars (like instituting harsh Islamic law in the areas they control, turning the local population against them).

Assad is bad, but anything that weakens him may help put an Al Quada affiliate into power, which is worse.

The situation in Syria is a complete disaster, and it's not easy to see the path to a good (for us) outcome.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:36 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
One of the biggest problems is that the best anti-Assad organization over there is the Al Quada one. Unfortunately, they're tough, experienced (from Iraq), and disciplined. They're also not repeating their mistakes from prior wars (like instituting harsh Islamic law in the areas they control, turning the local population against them).

Assad is bad, but anything that weakens him may help put an Al Quada affiliate into power, which is worse.

The situation in Syria is a complete disaster, and it's not easy to see the path to a good (for us) outcome.
I agree. But it became a disaster while we dithered and went out of our way to take on an appearance of weakness. We've had horrible foreign policy leadership for the past 5 years.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:36 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
One of the biggest problems is that the best anti-Assad organization over there is the Al Quada one. Unfortunately, they're tough, experienced (from Iraq), and disciplined. They're also not repeating their mistakes from prior wars (like instituting harsh Islamic law in the areas they control, turning the local population against them).

Assad is bad, but anything that weakens him may help put an Al Quada affiliate into power, which is worse.

The situation in Syria is a complete disaster, and it's not easy to see the path to a good (for us) outcome.
Ummm... I thought that Assad was in power a while back and was pretty bad on human rights, then they held elections and ended up electing a muslim brotherhood guy, and the muslim brotherhood basically DID start trying to implement sharia law, turning the population against them, which is why the people started demonstrating and revolting, which led to a coup by Assad and the military. And now the muslim brotherhood and Al Qaeda make up the bulk of the rebels.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:37 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Ummm... I thought that Assad was in power a while back and was pretty bad on human rights, then they held elections and ended up electing a muslim brotherhood guy, and the muslim brotherhood basically DID start trying to implement sharia law, turning the population against them, which is why the people started demonstrating and revolting, which led to a coup by Assad and the military. And now the muslim brotherhood and Al Qaeda make up the bulk of the rebels.
Bolded parts = No.

Non-bolded parts = Yes.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:44 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Bolded parts = No.

Non-bolded parts = Yes.
Be more specific.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:46 AM   #53
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I agree. But it became a disaster while we dithered and went out of our way to take on an appearance of weakness. We've had horrible foreign policy leadership for the past 5 years.

Like it was so great the 8 years before that...

There never were any easy answers to the Syrian situation.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:47 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Ummm... I thought that Assad was in power a while back and was pretty bad on human rights, then they held elections and ended up electing a muslim brotherhood guy, and the muslim brotherhood basically DID start trying to implement sharia law, turning the population against them, which is why the people started demonstrating and revolting, which led to a coup by Assad and the military. And now the muslim brotherhood and Al Qaeda make up the bulk of the rebels.

You're thinking of Mumbarak and Egypt, except Mumbarak isn't part of the military coup (at least not so far as I am aware).
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:51 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Be more specific.
If you delete the bolded parts of that post, the post will be correct. The bolded parts never happened.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:53 AM   #56
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You're thinking of Mumbarak and Egypt, except Mumbarak isn't part of the military coup (at least not so far as I am aware).
Righto. In the middle east it's often difficult to keep it all straight. My bad.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:56 AM   #57
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Like it was so great the 8 years before that...

There never were any easy answers to the Syrian situation.
It was a lot better the previous 8 years.

There were never easy answers to Syria, but the worst foreign policy President of my lifetime has managed to make things infinitely worse.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:21 AM   #58
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Righto. In the middle east it's often difficult to keep it all straight. My bad.

Yeah, unfortunately, there's multiple ongoing disasters there to keep track of. Par for the course really.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:22 AM   #59
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It was a lot better the previous 8 years.

There were never easy answers to Syria, but the worst foreign policy President of my lifetime has managed to make things infinitely worse.

Your opinions are just that.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:33 AM   #60
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Your opinions are just that.
Are you pleased with the job he has done? Serious question. You and I often disagree but have always got along. Strictly curiosity~
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