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Old 08-29-2013, 12:54 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Oh hell. Assad may NOT have been involved? Really?

Cluster****. Thats what Obama is and what he runs. A Cluster****.

Intel. They used to gather intel to help guide a decision process. Sorta like market research. Seems Obama has his own shoot from the hip based on his media needs style that does not use Intel.

Check this shit...So we are about to cruise missile them for 3 nights of high ratings TV while our own Intel says wait up here...Assad may not be the bad guy in this gas thing after all? What?



WASHINGTON (AP) — The intelligence linking Syrian President Bashar Assad or his inner circle to an alleged chemical weapons attack is no “slam dunk,” with questions remaining about who actually controls some of Syria’s chemical weapons stores and doubts about whether Assad himself ordered the strike, U.S. intelligence officials say.

President Barack Obama declared unequivocally Wednesday that the Syrian government was responsible, while laying the groundwork for an expected U.S. military strike.

“We have concluded that the Syrian government in fact carried these out,” Obama said in an interview with “NewsHour” on PBS. “And if that’s so, then there need to be international consequences.” [...]

An intercept of Syrian military officials discussing the strike was among low-level staff, with no direct evidence tying the attack back to an Assad insider or even a senior Syrian commander, the officials said.

So while Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that links between the attack and the Assad government are “undeniable,” U.S. intelligence officials are not so certain that the suspected chemical attack was carried out on Assad’s orders, or even completely sure it was carried out by government forces, the officials said. [...]

Another possibility that officials would hope to rule out: that stocks had fallen out of the government’s control and were deployed by rebels in a callous and calculated attempt to draw the West into the war.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...08-29-03-11-56
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:36 PM   #76
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Agreed. But who can capture them? I've lost faith.
I have know idea.
We will see how well Obama's childproof, Union made rockets & bombs work I guess
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:38 PM   #77
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I have know idea.
We will see how well Obama's childproof, Union made rockets & bombs work I guess
Heh, yeah. Should be quite a show.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:11 PM   #78
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That's not really what this report means though. I believe we have strong confidence that this attack was launched by government forces (as opposed to rebels), based at least in part on the intercepted phone call. What we can't do is tie Assad or his highest level advisers personally to the attack with CSI-level certainty. That means there's a chance that this attack was a rogue operation ordered by some low level commander instead of a conscious escalation ordered by leader of the regime.
That's a perfectly fair point, but the thing is... its ALL so freakin shady over there that's its hard to know who's doing what.

Without knowing for sure, why even bother with it? Those people need to figure this out for themselves... let the saudis and other sunni nations fight their proxy war against iran and the shiites.

I've missed a lot of posts you've made on this recently, but honestly... what do we actually gain by getting involved?
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:12 PM   #79
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
The point I was trying to make
Striking gas stockpiles just disperses them into the environment. Its the type of weapon that needs captured. Not blown up.

This is just a way to keep everyone focused on Syrian,while Obama exempts Unions from Obama care.
You know/ flying under the radar so to speak
We have the capability to hit a site with weapons that shred the containers containing chem agents followed closely by incendiary weapons that burn it up before it's dispersed. I won't say that it's completely antiseptic, but most of the dispersal concerns are mitigated.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:19 PM   #80
patteeu patteeu is offline
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That's a perfectly fair point, but the thing is... its ALL so freakin shady over there that's its hard to know who's doing what.

Without knowing for sure, why even bother with it? Those people need to figure this out for themselves... let the saudis and other sunni nations fight their proxy war against iran and the shiites.

I've missed a lot of posts you've made on this recently, but honestly... what do we actually gain by getting involved?
I'm not advocating getting involved. It seems to me that Obama has painted us into a corner where all the options are terrible. Failing to act or throwing a token attack at Assad makes us look weak and, IMO, validates the idea that we're once again a paper tiger and that there's little consequence for the use of chemical weapons. Acting forcefully by actually hurting Assad or trying to topple his regime, helps some pretty radical Islamists including al Qaeda.

If we're not going to get involved, Obama should have kept his mouth shut (both when he drew the original red line and recently when his administration leaked preparations for an attack). And if we are going to get involved, we should have done it sooner, before al Qaeda and other radical Islamists became such a force within the opposition.

The answer to your question about what we stand to gain though, is that taking out the Assad regime would be a serious blow to Iranian regional power (which is why the Saudis want Assad gone). Unfortunately, we can't do that without creating another fertile territory for radical Islamists because we're sure not going to go in heavy like we did in Iraq to deny them.
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Last edited by patteeu; 08-30-2013 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:23 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not advocating getting involved. It seems to me like Obama has painted us into a corner where all the options are bad. Failing to act or throwing a token attack at Assad makes us look weak and, IMO, validates the idea that we're once again a paper tiger and that there's little consequence for the use of chemical weapons. Acting forcefully by actually hurting Assad, helps al Qaeda.
kill anyone with a gun
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:26 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not advocating getting involved. It seems to me like Obama has painted us into a corner where all the options are bad. Failing to act or throwing a token attack at Assad makes us look weak and, IMO, validates the idea that we're once again a paper tiger and that there's little consequence for the use of chemical weapons. Acting forcefully by actually hurting Assad, helps al Qaeda.
That's what i'm seeing - no good options - we lose either way.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:27 PM   #83
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
That's what i'm seeing - no good options - we lose either way.
I ended up adding more to my response, but that's the gist of it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:27 PM   #84
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Seems to me the best thing Obama could do to save face is request Congress to debate it and come up with some kind of resolution to use force. If they don't he can always point to them as the reason he looked stupid and weak. If they do he can launch his missiles as promised, and I bet he can count on the MSM to blame Congress for being complicit, much as they did with Bush/Congress/Iraq.

Oh wait, I have something wrong there.
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:34 PM   #85
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
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Seems to me the best thing Obama could do to save face is request Congress to debate it and come up with some kind of resolution to use force. If they don't he can always point to them as the reason he looked stupid and weak. If they do he can launch his missiles as promised, and I bet he can count on the MSM to blame Congress for being complicit, much as they did with Bush/Congress/Iraq.

Oh wait, I have something wrong there.
That's not a bad solution, however, it depends on how bad he wants to do something there. If he turns it over to the great do nothing congress it means he just wants out of the situation.

Congress couldn't pass gas, let alone any resolution.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:00 PM   #86
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We have the capability to hit a site with weapons that shred the containers containing chem agents followed closely by incendiary weapons that burn it up before it's dispersed. I won't say that it's completely antiseptic, but most of the dispersal concerns are mitigated.
But were they built & tested by Union employees?
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:40 AM   #87
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For sure the best way to get rid of WMD is to bomb & rocket strike Chemical weapons.
We actually have “Agent Defeat Weapons” that are bombs used to destroy chemical weapons. They were developed about 10 years ago. The only question is whether or not they'll work because we've never used them.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:43 PM   #88
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:37 PM   #89
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Check this shit...So we are about to cruise missile them for 3 nights of high ratings TV while our own Intel says wait up here...Assad may not be the bad guy in this gas thing after all? What?
That's kooky stuff, you kook.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #90
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I think both Assad and the rebels are capable and willing to use sarin gas if they thought it would advance their cause. Now, look at whose cause is advanced by this sarin gas attack.
Cept Assad is winning against the rebels so he doesn't need to use them. Plus his doing that risks western powers or the US coming in. It would be incredibly stupid of him.

And why aren't we calling these "rebels" insurgents?
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