Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-01-2013, 09:03 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spink, SD
Casino cash: $6322
Ok, so now what? Should/will Congress authorize force?

I do, if the case can be made it was actually the Syrian army that used the chemical weapons and not the rebels.

I'd institute a no fly zone and strike where we think the weapons are being made, along with Syrian army posts and installations. I'd also warn Assad we've got drones looking for him and stepping down and escaping to Russia might be a smart move.

I know the ramifications could be that AQ ends up taking control. But at this point I view Assad the same as AQ. I just don't see how we can look the other way when a leader uses WMD on his own people.
Posts: 25,064
mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #31
Warrior5 Warrior5 is offline
Stram was Cav
 
Warrior5's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chiefsplanet
Casino cash: $5529
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Who will get in bed with Obama at this point? After Benghazi and how nothing was done to support our own, would anyone go into a warzone with this asshole?
If you're actually asking me a question and not being rhetorical, I don't know. But if the rest of the civilized world is unwilling to put skin in the game, unilateral action is a non-starter.
__________________
The best pass defense is attacking the passer.
Posts: 4,599
Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.Warrior5 would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #32
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
At some point the peaceful side of Islam has to step and purge their scourge doesn't it?
Yes.

Not with force but with words, protest, and actions.

I believe that they have to reject the violent passages and interpretations (jihad of the sword as offensive/attacking instead of defense, martyrdom, suicide bombings, attacking civilians, etc..).

There IS a precedent for this, and it is the Islamic concept of Naskh (abrogation):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28tafsir%29


The ultimate Irony is that Naskh has turned Islam into an ultra violent , extremist reality....and that ONLY naskh can reclaim or change Islam into a peaceful modern religion which can co-exist with others.

To me, this is the only way....is it a pipe dream? Maybe.

But I do not see another way.
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,620
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:19 PM   #33
go bowe go bowe is offline
bye bye bo...
 
go bowe's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: independence
Casino cash: $5456
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I was more looking for discussion of what should congress do regardless of politics. Should we let a leader use WMD on his own citizens?

I see it that the issue revolves around what our role in the world should be. I was all for sitting back and let Syria fight it out on their own. WMD changed that for me. To add to that, I'm pretty sure using WMD on your own citizens is against some kind of international law thingy, so taking that leader out isn't really as big a step as you think.
congress should authorize a sustained tomahawk attack on the most important and vulnerable spots in assaddom, damaging assad as much as possible given the limitations of such an attack...

and i agree wholeheartedly that the use of chemical weapons must be prohibited and we are the only ones that can effectively prohibit them by severly punishing those who would use them...

using chemical weapons violates the geneva convention and some other treaty i can't recall just now...

but assassinating heads of other governments is expressly prohibited by u.s. law...

sad to say...
Posts: 30,014
go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #34
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Yes.

Not with force but with words, protest, and actions.

I believe that they have to reject the violent passages and interpretations (jihad of the sword as offensive/attacking instead of defense, martyrdom, suicide bombings, attacking civilians, etc..).

There IS a precedent for this, and it is the Islamic concept of Naskh (abrogation):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28tafsir%29


The ultimate Irony is that Naskh has turned Islam into an ultra violent , extremist reality....and that ONLY naskh can reclaim or change Islam into a peaceful modern religion which can co-exist with others.

To me, this is the only way....is it a pipe dream? Maybe.

But I do not see another way.

My take on Naksh from 2 years ago, and I could go back even further


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...44&postcount=4


Ive been saying this for a while.

I don't see it mentioned too many places, so please check it out mylyons.
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,620
Pawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < CasselPawnmower < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 12:31 PM   #35
go bowe go bowe is offline
bye bye bo...
 
go bowe's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: independence
Casino cash: $5456
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In a perfect world, where we had a visionary leader in the White House and where our population was capable of winning a war of wills, I'd support an action to take out Assad's regime and support the non-Islamist portions of the opposition. What we learned from Iraq is that where we are willing to pay the price and make a difference, (1) we can permanently eliminate the threat of a ruthless, anti-American dictator ever fielding WMD against us or his own people, (2) we can defeat al Qaeda's attempts to establish territory for itself or gain access to WMD, and (3) we can help the local people find a better, more free life than the one they had under their dictator.

But we don't live in a perfect world. We have an amateur in the White House and it would take the brilliant leader we most definitely don't have to keep our people from losing a battle of wills. A "shot across the bow" that's "just enough not to get mocked" won't have any effect on the outcome of the civil war, IMO. For these reasons, I think Congress should take this opportunity to cast a vote of no confidence in President Obama's leadership.
i would have thought if anyone were to ever be a brilliant leader to keep our people from losing a battle of wills, it would have been dick cheney...

it couldn't be because dick wasn't a brilliant, even visionary leader, could it? nah, he was the bestest president we ever had...

and if he couldn't keep our people from losing a war of wills re iraq, who could?

where is dick now that we really need him?

seriously though, what's dick's position on a punitive strike against assad?

btw, isn't a vote of no confidence a creature of parliamentary governments?

and what would be the point? to further weaken a weak president in the conduct of foreign affairs? and that is good for the country how?
Posts: 30,014
go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #36
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $8300
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I do, if the case can be made it was actually the Syrian army that used the chemical weapons and not the rebels.

I'd institute a no fly zone and strike where we think the weapons are being made, along with Syrian army posts and installations. I'd also warn Assad we've got drones looking for him and stepping down and escaping to Russia might be a smart move.

I know the ramifications could be that AQ ends up taking control. But at this point I view Assad the same as AQ. I just don't see how we can look the other way when a leader uses WMD on his own people.
Does it really matter how they are killed? I mean even our own govt has used similar on it's own people. It's called Waco. Furthermore, we're the only country in the world that has used weapons of mass destruction. We need to get off the high moral horse on such things.

Even if it was the Syrian govt, which is unlikely as they know it would involve us or the UN, it's not an act of justice to bomb them. For one, hitting chem weapon's sites will release more of them into the atmosphere and they're are thought to be in heavily populated areas. So we'd be guilty of a chemical attack ourselves. But that's the usual double standard.

There are other reports that these were supplied to the rebels from our allies the corrupt Saudi Arabian govt.
You view Assad as the same as AQ—the same man who Syrian Christians support as well as the middle class and businessmen.
You listen to too much TV, mostly likely FOX, for your facts it seems.


Bombing Syria is not an act of defense, it's an act of offense.
__________________

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 09-01-2013 at 02:29 PM..
Posts: 57,428
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 02:41 PM   #37
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $6344
Its a civil war. We shouldn't get involved in other countries civil wars no matter how nasty they get. We can't afford it and there is no way we gain from either side winning.
Posts: 1,542
GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.GloucesterChief would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #38
Cochise Cochise is offline
This season:
 
Cochise's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Casino cash: $8435
They shouldn't, because in my view we have no national interest in it.

I think it's probably an even chance they do or don't authorize. I think the poll numbers will will determine it.

It's hard to see democrats suddenly becoming hawks when they've spent a decade being doves and trying to sell it to their supporters, but stranger things have happened.

It's also hard to see republicans passing up a chance to give Obama's incompetent mideast policy the commentary it deserves, which is a rejection of his suggested course of action.

It would be a significant political embarrassment for Obama to lose this vote, and I don't expect the Republicans would want to pass that up.

I don't think either side is very concerned with internal Syrian politics.
Posts: 42,169
Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.Cochise threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #39
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $7125
Bottom line is no one on either side of the issue here can honestly say they give one rats ass about Syria. This is a total crock of shit that we need to do anything. The time to act has come and gone and nothing but hot air was sent to Syria. Punitive action....crap. Symbolic attacks...yea right.

Its an internal issue within Syria at this point. We have no business getting involved. All this do gooder talk of helping Syria or sending a message is pure garbage. Let the maggots clean up the mess
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 28,566
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #40
Stewie Stewie is online now
Supporter
 
Stewie's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West of the Equator
Casino cash: $6029
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Bottom line is no one on either side of the issue here can honestly say they give one rats ass about Syria. This is a total crock of shit that we need to do anything. The time to act has come and gone and nothing but hot air was sent to Syria. Punitive action....crap. Symbolic attacks...yea right.

Its an internal issue within Syria at this point. We have no business getting involved. All this do gooder talk of helping Syria or sending a message is pure garbage. Let the maggots clean up the mess
Yep. Let those ****ers kill each other. We don't need to waste a single bullet.
Posts: 10,896
Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.Stewie wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #41
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
All aboard the crazy train
 
LiveSteam's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: homeof43conferencetitles
Casino cash: $6447
Posts: 16,911
LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 05:59 PM   #42
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
Please squeeze
 
dirk digler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clinton, MO
Casino cash: $6355
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post

I know the ramifications could be that AQ ends up taking control. But at this point I view Assad the same as AQ. I just don't see how we can look the other way when a leader uses WMD on his own people.
I agree.

I was one of the few here that wanted\begging Bush to do something in Darfur, wished Clinton had engaged in Rwanda sooner etc... We can't turn a blind eye to genocide or a country using chemical weapons on their own people.

There will always be cowards in this country and around the world that don't want to get involved in situations like this and if Hitler was alive today and gassing Jews they wouldn't want to get involved in that either.
Posts: 48,499
dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.dirk digler 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:25 PM   #43
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $8300
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I agree.

I was one of the few here that wanted\begging Bush to do something in Darfur, wished Clinton had engaged in Rwanda sooner etc... We can't turn a blind eye to genocide or a country using chemical weapons on their own people.

There will always be cowards in this country and around the world that don't want to get involved in situations like this and if Hitler was alive today and gassing Jews they wouldn't want to get involved in that either.
Oh YAWN about the Jews. It's not apples to apples even. Civil war is civil war. They are among the nastiest of all wars. Just as internecine warfare is or family wars. It has nothing to do with cowardice. It's just that getting involved doesn't always improve conditions and then we become victims of unintended consequences with things like 9/11 and terrorism. Hitler was western at least...and had we not intervened, allowing the Germans to continue into Russia would have destroyed the Nazis. The Russians pretty much had the Germans defeated and losing by the time we got into it. Then there would have been no Cold War afterwards or a MidEast conflict.

Now, let's look at Rwanda, both sides would just switch sides on committing atrocities. So who does it help? If Belgian rule didn't intervene between the Tutsi and Hutu the ethnic divide wouldn't have increased. In fact many tribes have been at war with each other for eons.

Would you have been in favor of England entering our Civil War on behalf of the South?

This is not a just action. It's just more Wilsonian progressivism. There is no genocide being committed here. You bleeding heart progs create more problems for this country.
__________________

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 09-01-2013 at 06:41 PM..
Posts: 57,428
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:33 PM   #44
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Bottom line is no one on either side of the issue here can honestly say they give one rats ass about Syria. This is a total crock of shit that we need to do anything. The time to act has come and gone and nothing but hot air was sent to Syria. Punitive action....crap. Symbolic attacks...yea right.

Its an internal issue within Syria at this point. We have no business getting involved. All this do gooder talk of helping Syria or sending a message is pure garbage. Let the maggots clean up the mess
I'd be the first to admit that I don't see a good option for getting involved here, but we do have an interest in the nature of the region and a key factor in that nature is that Assad's Syria is one of Iran's key allies. We have an interest in preventing Iran's regional power from growing and, better yet, in shrinking it. Unfortunately, we have competing interests as well (in avoiding the kind of disorder that would allow al Qaeda to thrive) which is why this is such a complex situation.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #45
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $7125
Im beginning to understand. Maybe someone can clarify it though. Syrians are fighting Syrians in Syria with the help of some outside random Muslim people from other places who belong to various factions. A couple thousand men women and children had died in the fighting since March. And then someone used Sarin Gas, admittedly a very bad thing to do. They were told by Obama not to do that yet they defy his will and do it anyway. Obama had said it was a red line and not to cross it. Then a week or two goes by and nothing happens, lots of hot talk and words.

Other countries discuss it, the UN actually did nothing because nothing was ever really proposed, Brits look at it and say not getting involved and Obama seems ready to go it alone.

Odd that the issue is that Assad killed a bunch of his enemy and to teach him a lesson some folks here want to kill some other people to get him to stop killing people.

Kerry and some French Spies declare 1000's of tonnes of gas is in Syria. And Obama wants to do a limited strike. Not sure I can follow all this. Does he intend to blow up all that gas? Isn't that really bad for people downwind? Isn't 1000s of tones a lot? I mean it sure sounds like a lot. Can we blow it all up with a limited strike? Is this stuff mobile? Or is it in a fixed location we can get a bead on? Assad knows Obama wants to shoot some Cruises off...would he have moved the stuff? If this gas is the issue, then wouldnt we have to set the goal at destroying all of it so it cannot be used again?

And if we do something, God knows what, can we define what success is before we do it? That way we can declare we kicked ass and stop.
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 28,566
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.