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Old 09-01-2013, 10:03 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Ok, so now what? Should/will Congress authorize force?

I do, if the case can be made it was actually the Syrian army that used the chemical weapons and not the rebels.

I'd institute a no fly zone and strike where we think the weapons are being made, along with Syrian army posts and installations. I'd also warn Assad we've got drones looking for him and stepping down and escaping to Russia might be a smart move.

I know the ramifications could be that AQ ends up taking control. But at this point I view Assad the same as AQ. I just don't see how we can look the other way when a leader uses WMD on his own people.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:16 PM   #61
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's a false report that Assad used chem weapons on his people. You haven't learned anything since Iraq, have you?
Are you willing to be such a goody-two-shoes progressive when the risk is a wider war or WWIII?
Thats pretty kooky there cookie. You really think Assad didn't do it? Really?
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #62
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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So he will still have 1000s of tonnes of gas but we will like hope hes cool and wont use them to stay in power when the next Muslim nut bag shows up....Im liking the possibility here for a major victory.
If I was in charge I would commit massive ground troops and wipe him off the face of the planet and take over Syria. We would then have took over Iran's puppet and gave a big finger to Russia.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #63
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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If I was in charge I would commit massive ground troops and wipe him off the face of the planet and take over Syria. We would then have took over Iran's puppet and gave a big finger to Russia.
taken over.

Bad idea made worse with bad grammar. And shouldn't it be "If I were in charge,"?


And sarcasm does not change the fact "doing something" is not usually a good rationale for "doing something"
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:23 PM   #64
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I didn't say you did just pointing out the stupidity of everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes things are just what they are.
Oh pot calling kettle here. You frequently posted about the PNAC document that preceded invading Iraq as early as several years before in the late 90's.

Besides I didn't post anything about any conspiracy anyways. You don't know the meaning of the word. That gets used when one wants to ignore special interest influences on our govt and/or our covert activities. So, one cries "conspiracy" to alter what was said to worsen it.
It's been reported already about the covert activities in these places. We are usually on the ground in such a manner before openly being involved. That is something for what it is and is factual. That is unless one is a dope and gets the dumbed-down version from TV. And, you being former military ought to know better. I hear this from former military veterans frequently even before we got into Bosnia.

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My stance has nothing to do with Obama being in charge, as I stated I wanted Bush to use US troops in Darfur and wish Clinton had done more in Rwanda. We don't always have to use our military just because it is in our national interest, we can be a beacon of good and do the right thing by stopping genocide or some POS Dictator gassing his own people.
Ah year, Darfur, the progressives humanitarian objectives are always more noble for the loss of American lives. As I recall, invading Iraq also had a alleged humanitarian objective as well.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #65
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Thats pretty kooky there cookie. You really think Assad didn't do it? Really?
There are reports that indicate it wasn't and that SA gave chem weapons to the rebels.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me, because it doesn't matter how they get killed...what matters is that they are getting killed.
Otherwise, it's just an excuse to intervene. Or it's the propaganda blitz that we get first.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:26 PM   #66
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
taken over.

Bad idea made worse with bad grammar. And shouldn't it be "If I were in charge,"?


And sarcasm does not change the fact "doing something" is not usually a good rationale for "doing something"
Thanks for the grammar lesson

And no sarcasm I am of the belief if you commit the US Military to war\conflict you go all the way instead of half-assing it. That is why we get in some of the messes that we do.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:27 PM   #67
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
There are reports that indicate it wasn't and that SA gave chem weapons to the rebels.
There are reports....come on. Really? Art Bell used to have a kook every night who sourced "reports".
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #68
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
There are reports....come on. Really? Art Bell used to have a kook every night who sourced "reports".
You usually have nothing to counter with that's very intelligent...so you use kook etc. My anti war sources have been impeccably accurate beginning with Iraq. They were on Bosnia as well, but I didn't have time to think about that one much.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #69
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Dirk, did you know that an AQ affiliate is also urging the Egyptians to take up arms against that military even?
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #70
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Thanks for the grammar lesson

And no sarcasm I am of the belief if you commit the US Military to war\conflict you go all the way instead of half-assing it. That is why we get in some of the messes that we do.
That sets it clear then. You advocate a take over of Syria? Jesus. The left has become the right.

New boss same as the old boss? Where is Denise when we need her?
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:30 PM   #71
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You usually have nothing to counter with that's very intelligent...so you use kook etc.
Well Im not very smart. I do the best I can with what Ive got. But Im smart enough to know a kook when I hear one.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #72
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I'm so glad the Tory govt in Britain was stopped by Parliament on this.

EDIT: Oops! Latest news is the Tories will get involved despite the "no" vote.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:34 PM   #73
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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That sets it clear then. You advocate a take over of Syria? Jesus. The left has become the right.

New boss same as the old boss? Where is Denise when we need her?
I just don't see the point of lobbing a few cruise missiles. It is a waste of time.

I wouldn't be opposed to using SpecOps to destroy all the WMD caches, using airpower to destroy the delivery systems, and if there is chance to kill Assad do it. That would probably be my #1 option.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:38 PM   #74
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Well Im not very smart. I do the best I can with what Ive got. But Im smart enough to know a kook when I hear one.
No you're not. You're just poorly informed. Probably get your news from TV and don't check any alternative reports. The first casualty of war is the truth. It's utter nonsense for Assad to use such weapons since he was winning against the rebels. This is just being alleged to use increased force for regime change.

EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack
Rebels and local residents in Ghouta accuse Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan of providing chemical weapons to an al-Qaida linked rebel group.

Section on: Saudi involvement

In a recent article for Business Insider, reporter Geoffrey Ingersoll highlighted Saudi Prince Bandar’s role in the two-and-a-half year Syrian civil war. Many observers believe Bandar, with his close ties to Washington, has been at the very heart of the push for war by the U.S. against Assad.

Ingersoll referred to an article in the U.K.’s Daily Telegraph about secret Russian-Saudi talks alleging that Bandar offered Russian President Vladimir Putin cheap oil in exchange for dumping Assad.

“Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord,” Ingersoll wrote.

“I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” Bandar allegedly told the Russians.

“Along with Saudi officials, the U.S. allegedly gave the Saudi intelligence chief the thumbs up to conduct these talks with Russia, which comes as no surprise,” Ingersoll wrote.

“Bandar is American-educated, both military and collegiate, served as a highly influential Saudi Ambassador to the U.S., and the CIA totally loves this guy,” he added.

According to U.K.’s Independent newspaper, it was Prince Bandar’s intelligence agency that first brought allegations of the use of sarin gas by the regime to the attention of Western allies in February.

The Wall Street Journal recently reported that the CIA realized Saudi Arabia was “serious” about toppling Assad when the Saudi king named Prince Bandar to lead the effort.

“They believed that Prince Bandar, a veteran of the diplomatic intrigues of Washington and the Arab world, could deliver what the CIA couldn’t: planeloads of money and arms, and, as one U.S. diplomat put it, wasta, Arabic for under-the-table clout,” it said.

Bandar has been advancing Saudi Arabia’s top foreign policy goal, WSJ reported, of defeating Assad and his Iranian and Hezbollah allies.

To that aim, Bandar worked Washington to back a program to arm and train rebels out of a planned military base in Jordan.

The newspaper reports that he met with the “uneasy Jordanians about such a base”:

His meetings in Amman with Jordan’s King Abdullah sometimes ran to eight hours in a single sitting. “The king would joke: ‘Oh, Bandar’s coming again? Let’s clear two days for the meeting,’ ” said a person familiar with the meetings.

Jordan’s financial dependence on Saudi Arabia may have given the Saudis strong leverage. An operations center in Jordan started going online in the summer of 2012, including an airstrip and warehouses for arms. Saudi-procured AK-47s and ammunition arrived, WSJ reported, citing Arab officials.

Although Saudi Arabia has officially maintained that it supported more moderate rebels, the newspaper reported that “funds and arms were being funneled to radicals on the side, simply to counter the influence of rival Islamists backed by Qatar.”

But rebels interviewed said Prince Bandar is referred to as “al-Habib” or ‘the lover’ by al-Qaida militants fighting in Syria.

Peter Oborne, writing in the Daily Telegraph on Thursday, has issued a word of caution about Washington’s rush to punish the Assad regime with so-called ‘limited’ strikes not meant to overthrow the Syrian leader but diminish his capacity to use chemical weapons:

Consider this: the only beneficiaries from the atrocity were the rebels, previously losing the war, who now have Britain and America ready to intervene on their side. While there seems to be little doubt that chemical weapons were used, there is doubt about who deployed them.

It is important to remember that Assad has been accused of using poison gas against civilians before. But on that occasion, Carla del Ponte, a U.N. commissioner on Syria, concluded that the rebels, not Assad, were probably responsible.

Some information in this article could not be independently verified. Mint Press News will continue to provide further information and updates .

Dale Gavlak is a Middle East correspondent for Mint Press News and has reported from Amman, Jordan, writing for the Associated Press, NPR and BBC. An expert in Middle Eastern affairs, Gavlak covers the Levant region, writing on topics including politics, social issues and economic trends. Dale holds a M.A. in Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Chicago.

http://www.mintpressnews.com/witness...eapons/168135/
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:40 PM   #75
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I just don't see the point of lobbing a few cruise missiles. It is a waste of time.

I wouldn't be opposed to using SpecOps to destroy all the WMD caches, using airpower to destroy the delivery systems, and if there is chance to kill Assad do it. That would probably be my #1 option.
Using air power to destroy any chemical sites will unleash them on the civilian population. To my knowledge these are not in thinly populated areas. You should know better. You should also know better that bringing down Assad has more to do with a phase in going after Iran or inciting Iran who has already threatened action if we intervene.
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