Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge

View Poll Results: You're on the jury. Do you acquit or convict based on the story below?
Acquit. A man's home is his castle. 18 24.66%
Convict. Send him up the river. 44 60.27%
I can't serve on a jury. I'm crazy, I'm telling you. CRAZY! 11 15.07%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-04-2013, 12:49 PM  
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
No known superpowers
 
Rain Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In A World Few See
Casino cash: $13849
VARSITY
Murder or Castle Doctrine?

A case not too far from my hometown.

http://www.therolladailynews.com/app...8&refresh=true

Slaying case may hinge on property rights


STEELVILLE, Mo. ó James Crocker had grown weary of the partying canoeists and rafters who encroached on his neatly kept property along Missouri's Meramec River. When he caught a man about to relieve himself on a gravel bar by his yard last month, a nasty confrontation ensued that ended with one person dead and Crocker accused of killing him.

The case against Crocker is the latest to put a spotlight on "castle doctrine" laws, which allow the use of deadly force to protect property. Missouri is among at least 30 states that have enacted the statutes, which supporters say protect gun rights but others insist promote vigilantism.

Crocker's attorney, Michael Bert of St. Louis, said that Crocker was defending himself and his property.

"Here's a man in fear for his life and fearful he might suffer bodily injury," Bert said.

Prosecutors see it differently. Witnesses who testified at a hearing this month said Crocker was angry and raging, shooting into the crowd of people, narrowly missing two others before killing 48-year-old Paul Dart Jr. of Robertsville, Mo. Crocker has been charged with second degree murder.
Even some supporters of the doctrine say the violence seemed avoidable.

"The smart thing is to back away, and nobody seemed to be willing to do that," said Kevin Jamison, an attorney who lobbied for Missouri's castle doctrine bill as a member of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance.

Crocker, a 59-year-old plastics plant worker with long hair and a thick goatee, lives in a small white frame home on a shaded gravel road about eight miles west of Steelville, the self-proclaimed floating capital of the world. Tens of thousands of people come to the region every year to raft, canoe or kayak down the Meramec and nearby rivers.

Drinking is sometimes part of the outings, resulting in bawdy behavior that doesn't sit well with owners of land that touches the river. Many have complained for years about loud parties, trash left behind and crude behavior.

Herb Smelser, 77, who lives three houses down from Crocker, said it isn't uncommon to find people using his yard as a restroom. The problem was so bad, he said, that he let his grass grow high to discourage trespassers.
Crocker, though, kept his yard trim and tidy ó "like a park," Smelser said. To keep out the unwanted, Crocker posted "No Trespassing" and "Private Property" signs along the hill that slopes down to a gravel area along the meandering river.

On July 20, Dart, a carpenter, and around four dozen other members of an extended family gathered at a campground for their annual float trip along the Meramec. A few hours into the trip, Robert and Regina Burgess stopped their canoe on a gravel bar. Robert, who had drunk about three beers, decided to relieve himself, he testified at the preliminary hearing.

Crocker confronted Burgess and other members of the party. When happened then is in dispute, and will be a crucial part of the case.

Burgess and his wife testified that Crocker was immediately agitated and aggressive, firing two shots in their direction ó Robert said one hit the ground near his feet. Another bullet hit Dart in the face.

Burgess said it was only after Dart was shot that members of the party picked up rocks to defend themselves against Crocker, who was armed with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

"I'm standing there unarmed and the guy's got a gun," Burgess said.
Crocker didn't testify at the hearing, but his attorney gave a different account.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Bert said Crocker politely asked the float trip party to leave. "The response he got was angry and profane," Bert said.

Crocker and those in the float trip party argued over whether the gravel bar was public land or Crocker's. Eventually, the men picked up "softball-sized" rocks and began pelting Crocker, Bert said. He said Crocker suffered head injuries, then fired his gun to defend himself.

"When people say is this a case of the castle doctrine I say, 'yes, kind of,' but more importantly these people were armed with what I would consider weapons," Bert said.

Missouri State Highway Patrol trooper Joseph Peart testified that he saw no evidence that Crocker was injured.

Police said Crocker told them, "I just shot the one closest to me."

Whether or not the floaters were on Crocker's property may be an issue in the case since Missouri law isn't clear on where private property along a waterway begins. Some experts say it starts at the vegetation line; others say property rights extend to the center of a river or stream.

"That may be a critical question," said Jamison, of Kansas City, Mo. "If (Crocker) reasonably believed the man was on his property and he wasn't, I'm not sure that's enough."

Missouri's castle doctrine statute, enacted in 2007, gives residents a legal right to defend themselves and their property against intruders. Supporters of such laws cite a number of cases in which homeowners were able to fend off burglars or other criminals without fear of prosecution. But Florida's law gained notoriety after a neighborhood watch activist, George Zimmerman, fatally shot teen Trayvon Martin, and was acquitted of criminal charges.

A 2012 Texas A&M University study found that homicides ruled justifiable rose by 8 percent in states with "stand-your-ground laws.

In the Missouri case, Crawford County detective Zachary Driskill said he asked Crocker if he could have called police instead of taking matters into his own hands.

"I guess I could have, but it's my property and I was going to protect it," Crocker responded, according to case documents.
Posts: 76,762
Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:52 PM   #46
Dave Lane Dave Lane is online now
Space Cadet and Aczabel
 
Dave Lane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Casino cash: $8245
VARSITY
Stupidest comment in history. Yeah they started mouthing off and throwing rocks at a guy with a 9mm pistol. Yeah thats bound to be true.

Look at his picture there's literally no way he wasn't at fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
I canoe the rivers of southern MO a couple of times a summer. I've got my son with me, and we are fishing, so were pretty tame as floaters go. We do stop on sand bars all along the river to fish from them, eat lunch, or swim a bit. I've only once had a man come down and tell me that technically, I was on his land, but he didn't care.

I'm guessing the story lies somewhere in the middle, but it'll be a he said/he said type of thing where only the people there will really know what happened.

If a guy starts shooting at my friends and I, I'm not picking up rocks and throwing them at him, I'm running my ass away in a serpentine path.

I'll bet the drunk floaters didn't want to be told that they can't be there, argued, it escalated, stones got thrown, and he shot at them.

I'd probably acquit him based on the story above.
Posts: 24,394
Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.Dave Lane is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:54 PM   #47
Rausch Rausch is offline
MVP
 
Rausch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Jefferson City, mo., USA
Casino cash: $10734
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Let's face it, everyone knew he was going to shoot someone in the face eventually.
Has not killed anyone yet...
Attached Images
 
__________________
Quote:
"He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there."
Denver rookie QB John Elway, on Jack Lambert, after Lambert and the Steelers knocked Elway out of his first game as a pro (1983).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rico View Post
I wish I always ended up at gay bars.
Posts: 50,981
Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rausch is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:54 PM   #48
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
No known superpowers
 
Rain Man's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In A World Few See
Casino cash: $13849
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Based on appearances alone I would convict after seeing that picture.
They may have thrown rocks because they thought he was an attacking sasquatch.
__________________
Welcome to NFL Sunday! At 11:00 see Peyton Manning flip off the top rope and clothesline Clay Matthews! At 2:00 Drew Brees will hit Terrell Suggs with a chair! Buy your Andrew Luck jersey and let's get reeeeeady to rummmmmble!
Posts: 76,762
Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:55 PM   #49
trndobrd trndobrd is offline
tainted
 
trndobrd's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Tolerance Box
Casino cash: $5050
First, the reporter completely misrepresents the Missouri Castle Doctrine law. It does NOT "allow the use of deadly force to defend property." It makes clear that a person does not have to retreat from a "dwelling, residence or vehicle" if they believe physical force is required to protect himself.* Basically, it provides a protection against prosecution based on the theory that you should have tried to escape from your home instead of shooting the robber. There is no 'Castle Doctrine" defense in this case.

Second, as DJ mentioned, this is just a plain old self defense case. Would a 'reasonable person' have felt a threat of death or severe bodily harm by a couple drunk Yahoos throwing rocks?





2. A person may not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself or herself or another against death, serious physical injury,[ rape, sodomy or kidnapping or serious physical injury through robbery, burglary or arson] or any forcible felony; or

(2) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person.

3. A person does not have a duty to retreat from a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining.
__________________
"I don't really think there is a need to raise or debate this point."
-jAZ
Posts: 6,608
trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #50
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
Wearing ballistic dog goggles.
 
Radar Chief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In the box.
Casino cash: $6186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
I was just thinking that if thousands of people each year use that waterway for canoeing and rafting is that a new phenomenon or did it start after he had bought the property? I suspect it has been happening for a very long time prior to his arrival as owner. Maybe he should have considered that before the purchase..?? I also wonder if a single person has been ticketed for violating property rights around there for rafting in that waterway..?? Pertinent questions one would think..
Yea, I was wondering those things myself.
__________________
Like "Cool Hand" Luke I'm busting rocks.

__/|_/[___]
|/ \\_| ---OllllO
_( ))~-( ))-0--))
Posts: 22,453
Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #51
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $12997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Don't know about MO but it is most definitely true in Kansas, been through this argument with law enforcement officers.
In fact if the land owner owns the property on both sides of the river that section of the river belongs to them.
http://www.nationalrivers.org/PDF/RiverLawHandout.pdf

Federal law would probably bar anyone from fencing off or blocking the gravel bars even if an owner owned BOTH sides of the river. No matter what state.

As long as there is ankle deep water....there is probably an easement.



Not really an area I have any experience with though....
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,898
Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #52
trndobrd trndobrd is offline
tainted
 
trndobrd's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Tolerance Box
Casino cash: $5050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Aren't the other witnesses viewed as biased since they're part of the dead guy's tribe? And depending on who you believe, active rock chuckers of the dead guy's tribe? If I was on a jury I'd discount them pretty heavily.


__________________
"I don't really think there is a need to raise or debate this point."
-jAZ
Posts: 6,608
trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.trndobrd would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #53
Earthling Earthling is offline
MVP
 
Earthling's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Casino cash: $5983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Iím sure he could but how? Ever drive on a gravel bar, dig a hole in one? The water lever is just below the surface, thatís what makes river gravel one of the slickest substances to get stuck in.
Since it has been previously been used conspicuously, and notoriously for an easement of sorts for rafters Mr. Crockers case might not hold water. Here in CO (Kansas as well), if you use part of a neighboring property conspicuously and notoriously for a certain number of years (20yr I believe) it becomes part of your own property. (As in a farmer whose fence-line around his fields is actually partly on anothers property.)

Whatever, this certainly presents an interesting case...
__________________
AND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT SO EASY
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR ONLY FRIEND
TALKS SEES LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE YOU
AND YOU DO JUST THE SAME AS HIM -Jiimi Hendrix
Posts: 5,650
Earthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliEarthling 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #54
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
Wearing ballistic dog goggles.
 
Radar Chief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In the box.
Casino cash: $6186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
http://www.nationalrivers.org/PDF/RiverLawHandout.pdf

Federal law would probably bar anyone from fencing off or blocking the gravel bars even if an owner owned BOTH sides of the river. No matter what state.

As long as there is ankle deep water....there is probably an easement.



Not really an area I have any experience with though....
Ah, yes, the fencing off. I was talking strictly about property.
I imagine Fish and Game Dept. would have something to say about modifying the river bed so youíre probably right.
__________________
Like "Cool Hand" Luke I'm busting rocks.

__/|_/[___]
|/ \\_| ---OllllO
_( ))~-( ))-0--))
Posts: 22,453
Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.Radar Chief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:05 PM   #55
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $12997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Ah, yes, the fencing off. I was talking strictly about property.
I imagine Fish and Game Dept. would have something to say about modifying the river bed so youíre probably right.
The property issue is actually interesting too...

Here's my (very basic) take on it...

You would be better off NOT owning to the middle of the river...for it doesnt do you any good other than placing you at a greater risk of liability and need of insurance.

You cant build or control anything in the middle of the river anyway, because of the easement laws, so "owning" to the middle of the river is basically meaningless......Unless I am not thinking of something...like maybe if the river dries up? I dunno....but just looking at the river itself, theres almost no reason to 'want' to be the owner of the middle of the river in my mind.

I know this is a total tangent, but my mind wanders....

LOL
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,898
Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #56
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $9158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Don't know about MO but it is most definitely true in Kansas, been through this argument with law enforcement officers.
In fact if the land owner owns the property on both sides of the river that section of the river belongs to them.
Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.
Posts: 18,417
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:12 PM   #57
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $12997
One side note in looking at the federal law....it seems the FLoaters do have the right to use gravel bars and the banks of the river.....as an easement...as long as they dont try and travel onto the guy's property. But they DO seem to have a right to use the gravel banks etc as they travel down the river.

Whether they should get violent and throw rocks / confront the property owner while doing so is another issue....
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,898
Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:13 PM   #58
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
No known superpowers
 
Rain Man's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In A World Few See
Casino cash: $13849
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.
Yeah, maybe it differs by state, but I thought that anybody can float on any body of water as long as they don't touch land.

Now having said that, there's a creek flowing through the Denver Country Club that I wouldn't want to test that on. They're very protective and have enough rich members to produce a body or two without repercussion.
__________________
Welcome to NFL Sunday! At 11:00 see Peyton Manning flip off the top rope and clothesline Clay Matthews! At 2:00 Drew Brees will hit Terrell Suggs with a chair! Buy your Andrew Luck jersey and let's get reeeeeady to rummmmmble!
Posts: 76,762
Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:14 PM   #59
Pawnmower Pawnmower is online now
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $12997
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.
It IS an easement, precisely.

The easement extends even to the bank and gravel bars etc...as I understand it.
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 14,898
Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Pawnmower has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #60
tooge tooge is online now
MVP
 
tooge's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Liberty, MO
Casino cash: $6057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Stupidest comment in history. Yeah they started mouthing off and throwing rocks at a guy with a 9mm pistol. Yeah thats bound to be true.

Look at his picture there's literally no way he wasn't at fault.
First off, go **** yourself. Secondly, the guy probably wasn't brandishing his weapon as he went down there. Finally, have you ever been away from your stargazing and Jesus bashing long enough to go to one of these rivers? The canoeists on the river are complete idiots half of the time. They leave their beer cans, flip flops, clothing, baggies, etc., all over the river and its banks. Most of them are highly inebriated, foul mouthed, and doing things that are illegal (showing tits, smoking weed). There is no way they stood there throwing rocks at a guy with a gun. No chance.

Was it right to shoot them? No. He should have walked back up the hill to his house and called the cops, but if they were throwing rocks at him, or simply wouldn't leave his property when asked, then they broke the law, not him. I think by the letter of the law, he could have shot more of them until they left his property.
Posts: 8,467
tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.tooge has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:02 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.