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Old 09-16-2013, 10:51 AM  
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
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Naval yard shooting

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...oting/2819543/

WASHINGTON -- Six people were killed and several more wounded when at least one gunman opened fire Monday at the Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters here, the Navy said.

Washington Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy Lanier said one shooter was dead and that police were searching for two more possible shooters. She said one officer was shot in an "engagement'' with one shooter.

"One shooter is deceased,'' she said. "We have multiple victims inside who are deceased. We potentially have two other shooters who have not been located.'

Lanier said police are searching for a white male wearing a tan military-style uniform with short sleeves, a military beret and a hand gun. Police are also searching for a black man around 50 years old wearing an olive drab military style uniform and carrying a long gun, Lanier said.

She said there was no evidence that the suspects were military members.

A federal law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the fluid nature of the investigation, said authorities were investigating the possibility of other shooters, but there was no immediate evidence beyond the single assailant.

Washington DC Mayor Vincent Gray called the incident a "horrific tragedy" and lauded police for their quick response.

Media outlets including CBS and the Associated Press, citing the Navy, said the number of dead had risen to six. Major Ed Buclatin, the public affairs chief for the Navy Installations Command, earlier had tweeted "four killed and eight injured." He also tweeted that reports of more than one shooter had not been confirmed.

I looked on front page of the board, and didn't see it. Forgive me if a Q
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #91
Cave Johnson Cave Johnson is offline
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Sounds like the Navy dropped the ball after being informed of the shooter's psychosis. Guns absolved!!
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:53 PM   #92
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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So, he apparently bought along one shotgun, which he bought perfectly legally in Virginia ("Virginia", as in "Tech Shooter Also Bought His Guns Here Just As Legally"), one week earlier. The gun store - who is understandably paranoid, silent, and/or mortified right now - insists that they followed state law, and I am guessing they probably did. That state law says they may not sell a gun to someone who was convicted of a crime (Alexis was charged with several, but not convicted), was admitted to a mental institution (Alexis was under care for a growing mental case, but had not been admitted), or someone who had been dishonorably discharged from the military (Alexis had a general discharge, due to those first two instances).

So, the question is this: What could anyone have done to have kept this guy with that gun out of that room at that time, without nullifying the rights of other people to own firearms under the Second Amendment, his right to confidentiality of his mental health records?

I think Cave Johnson is on to something. The AP today reported that he had been treated for mental disorders since August, had been suffering from paranoia and sleep disorders, and had been hearing voices. I think maybe they should have taken his badge away for a while, and put him on the employment version of IR.

I think we could also benefit from a no-sell list, on which licensed psychiatrists can place mental patients suffering from disorders like this, and which would prevent them from passing a firearm background check, while automatically notifying the psychiatrist of the attempt. It wouldn't have to be permanent - patients who get better can later be removed - and I would be OK with limiting placing privileges to actual psychiatrists, who are MD's, and not psychologists or counselors, who aren't. To me, this wouldn't be a gun control option as much as it is a method to identify a mental health patient who is completely imploding.

The issue can admittedly get really complicated and emotional, but this specific case seems like simple fixes can keep it from happening again.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #93
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That's some good reporting! Push your agenda before you have the facts.

And these gun grabbers wonder why we get so pissed. It's because they don't use facts to push their agenda. They use fear and twisted statistics.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:57 PM   #94
Bwana Bwana is offline
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Originally Posted by rockymtnchief View Post


That's some good reporting! Push your agenda before you have the facts.

And these gun grabbers wonder why we get so pissed. It's because they don't use facts to push their agenda. They use fear and twisted statistics.
That's about par for a NY rag.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post

I think we could also benefit from a no-sell list, on which licensed psychiatrists can place mental patients suffering from disorders like this, and which would prevent them from passing a firearm background check, while automatically notifying the psychiatrist of the attempt. It wouldn't have to be permanent - patients who get better can later be removed - and I would be OK with limiting placing privileges to actual psychiatrists, who are MD's, and not psychologists or counselors, who aren't. To me, this wouldn't be a gun control option as much as it is a method to identify a mental health patient who is completely imploding.

The issue can admittedly get really complicated and emotional, but this specific case seems like simple fixes can keep it from happening again.
I've said something similar for a while.

Part of the problem is that not all states report mental illness so it can be added to the background check database.

Also, I've had others make a strong argument against me...and I can agree with them to a point. At what point are you mentally ill? Migraine, bad dreams, suicidal tendencies, eating peoples faces?
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:05 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
That's about par for a NY rag.
You can bet the admission of error wasn't on the front page.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:08 PM   #97
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockymtnchief View Post
I've said something similar for a while.

Part of the problem is that not all states report mental illness so it can be added to the background check database.

Also, I've had others make a strong argument against me...and I can agree with them to a point. At what point are you mentally ill? Migraine, bad dreams, suicidal tendencies, eating peoples faces?
Good point, which is (one reason) why I specified psychiatrists, who I would think if anyone could draw up some guidelines, it would be them.

I'm definitely not a psychiatrist, but I would think paranoid and voices in the head for six months would be a good starting spot.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:10 PM   #98
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockymtnchief View Post


That's some good reporting! Push your agenda before you have the facts.

And these gun grabbers wonder why we get so pissed. It's because they don't use facts to push their agenda. They use fear and twisted statistics.
That's not gun grabbers; that's sleazy, morale-free ratings grabbers.

That said, I get your point. If that's what makes a gun grabber, then yeah, they're dirt and should be ignored.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:18 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Good point, which is (one reason) why I specified psychiatrists, who I would think if anyone could draw up some guidelines, it would be them.

I'm definitely not a psychiatrist, but I would think paranoid and voices in the head for six months would be a good starting spot.
I agree. It should be a psychiatrist, not a judge/politician/neighbor. I wish I could remember all the arguments against me. They had some valid points.

To me, the biggest problem is states that offer nothing to the database to thwart a gun sale. California doesn't report anything to the database until a crime has been commited. I saw some place else that 19-20 states have less than 100 people reported.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:25 PM   #100
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Can't believe the government and can't believe the press. It will be interesting to see how much the narrative changes as more of the truth is discovered.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:40 PM   #101
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Biden is clearly deranged and no one says veepees have to be cleared by a psych.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:41 PM   #102
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so, military personnel are disarmed on their own base, by their superiors. and everybody is okay with that, top to bottom.

well then, more shootings should take place. ****ing retards.
The military never issues arms to its troops unless you are in a war zone. Been that way for a long time, assuming since WWII.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #103
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Sounds like the Navy dropped the ball after being informed of the shooter's psychosis. Guns absolved!!
The dude called the police to complain about voices in his hotel room closet. He wanted to go to a "Navy" hotel room without voices. The police showed up, filed a report. This was 6 weeks ago.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:47 PM   #104
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That's not gun grabbers; that's sleazy, morale-free ratings grabbers.

That said, I get your point. If that's what makes a gun grabber, then yeah, they're dirt and should be ignored.
How can you tell the difference? They are doing the exact same bullshit ignore the facts to push the agenda the same as the current administration~
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #105
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Gee, maybe if these people were allowed to carry weapons (it's not like they were social workers) somebody could have greased this turd before he lit up half the building. Same thing with Fort Hood.

If this psycho had known a large number of people in the building were armed, HE WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

/thread
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