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Old 09-17-2013, 08:51 AM  
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GOP can't win Latinos due to NRA

Pro-gun policies, NRA, may undercut GOP Latino outreach
Jane C. Timm, @janestreet
2:28 PM on 02/14/2013


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Republican opposition to gun control measures may damage the party amongst Latino voters, even as the party works to rebuild its image amongst the country’s fastest-growing voter block.

Just 18% of Latinos own guns, making them less likely than any other racial demographic to own a firearm, and they value gun rights less than any other demographic, according to a February Gallup poll. An April 2012 poll found that 57% of white voters ranked gun rights over that of gun ownership, as opposed to 29% of Latinos who ranked gun rights over gun ownership.

“Community violence and gun violence is something that has a deep impact within the Latino community, Latinos are about seven times more likely to die at the hands of a gun,” explained Jennifer Ng’andu, the director of health and civil rights at National Council of La Raza.


http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/02/14/pro-g...tino-outreach/
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Pro-gun policies, NRA, may undercut GOP Latino outreach
Jane C. Timm, @janestreet
2:28 PM on 02/14/2013


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Republican opposition to gun control measures may damage the party amongst Latino voters, even as the party works to rebuild its image amongst the country’s fastest-growing voter block.

Just 18% of Latinos own guns, making them less likely than any other racial demographic to own a firearm, and they value gun rights less than any other demographic, according to a February Gallup poll. An April 2012 poll found that 57% of white voters ranked gun rights over that of gun ownership, as opposed to 29% of Latinos who ranked gun rights over gun ownership.

“Community violence and gun violence is something that has a deep impact within the Latino community, Latinos are about seven times more likely to die at the hands of a gun,” explained Jennifer Ng’andu, the director of health and civil rights at National Council of La Raza.


http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/02/14/pro-g...tino-outreach/
"...the hands of a gun"???

I think the fallacy of this statement speaks for itself.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:14 PM   #32
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This is ridiculous. The problem is not guns or immigration, it is economic.

If the GOP voted to disband the border patrol, legalize everyone, and if they voted to ban all guns and rifles, the latino vote would not change much. The latino vote and the black vote, as a whole, is being driven by entitlement programs. Those two groups are generally a lot poorer than whites, so they vote for Democrats.

Latinos and poor whites do not vote for democrats as heavily as blacks for social reasons, because some latinos and poor whites are social conservatives. (Blacks tend to be socially liberal except for the gay issues) However, GWB's share of those two groups is probably going to be the high-water mark for those groups until their economic classes improve.
Great example of Republican outreach

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:23 PM   #33
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Great example of Republican outreach

/if someone doesn't like you, always blame them
Of course, his statement is entirely true. Hispanics overwhelmingly favor Democrats policies on redistribution. The GOP can't match it without driving away their base, just like the Dems cannot become more conservative to reach rural voters without driving away their core. Isn't this basic politics?
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #34
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:19 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Of course, his statement is entirely true. Hispanics overwhelmingly favor Democrats policies on redistribution. The GOP can't match it without driving away their base, just like the Dems cannot become more conservative to reach rural voters without driving away their core. Isn't this basic politics?
It is shame that facts aren't on your side.

Illegal immigrants are one of the few demographics that pay more into the tax system then they receive.

It's amazing you guys keep parroting the same old lies time and time again.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It is shame that facts aren't on your side.

Illegal immigrants are one of the few demographics that pay more into the tax system then they receive.

.
Do you have anything at all to back up that statement?

I have seen the idea “floated” a couple of time that some pay taxes and don’t get their refunds because they are using false information and I am sure that sometimes happens. On the other hand they being illegally in the country they try to stay off the grid making accurate tracking problematic at best. I have never seen any legitimate study claiming illegal immigrants to be a profit deal for the Government but, if you can provide something it would make an interesting read.

If people are really motivated by something other than who is going to give them or let them keep their money…With the Latino population being overwhelmingly Catholic, would not the Democratic stance on abortion have a more negative effect of their view of the left than gun control for the right?

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Old 09-18-2013, 08:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Do you have anything at all to back up that statement?

I have seen the idea “floated” a couple of time that some pay taxes and don’t get their refunds because they are using false information and I have no doubt that this sometimes happens. On the other hand they being illegally in the country try to stay off the grid making accurate tracking problematic at best. I have never seen any legitimate study claiming illegal immigrants to be a profit deal for the Government but if you can provide something it would make an interesting read.

If people are really motivated by something other than who is going to give them or let them keep their money…The Latino population is overwhelmingly Catholic, would not the Democratic stance on abortion have a more negative effect of their view of the left than gun control for the right?
Wait, cite something someone presents as a fact? On this website? Okay, but Ill just be accused of copy and pasting.

Well, first there is the myth that illegals don't pay taxes.

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes every time they buy gas, clothes or new appliances. They also contribute to property taxes—a main source of school funding—when they buy or rent a house, or rent an apartment. The Social Security Administration estimates that half to three-quarters of undocumented immigrants pay federal, state and local taxes, including $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security taxes for benefits they will never get -- a by product of using stolen S.S. cards (not exactly a good thing either way)

Now, what types of Welfare can they receive? S.S. nope. unemployment, nope.

http://www.cato.org/publications/com...FXRp7AodsnoAwA

Quote:
Ku and Bruen looked at social welfare programs ranging from Medicaid to the food stamp program to the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Their findings: Poor immigrants consistently utilize welfare programs less than their native-born counterparts. Furthermore, when poor immigrants do participate in welfare programs, the cost is less, resulting in a lower bill for the taxpayer.
Quote:
Certainly it is true that immigrants use fewer benefits because they are not eligible for them. Legal immigrants cannot get welfare for their first five years of residency with few exceptions. Unauthorized immigrants, of course, are not eligible for welfare at all. But doesn’t this in itself undermine the notion that new immigrants “immediately” become government-dependent, as claimed by Sen. Sessions and his ilk?
Quote:
Milton Friedman, the free-market economist beloved by conservatives, had an interesting take on immigration: It’s “a good thing for the United States…so long as it’s illegal.” Translation: Friedman believed open immigration to be highly beneficial for the economy, provided those inexpensive laborers did not have access to welfare.
/I'm not opposed to showing where I get my data because it isn't something I heard on talk radio.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It is shame that facts aren't on your side.

Illegal immigrants are one of the few demographics that pay more into the tax system then they receive.

It's amazing you guys keep parroting the same old lies time and time again.
What do illegal immigrants have to do with his post? Is this an admission that democrats count on votes from illegals?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:36 AM   #39
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What do illegal immigrants have to do with his post? Is this an admission that democrats count on votes from illegals?
Nah. They don't think people should have to carry photo IDs because they're camera shy.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:39 AM   #40
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Do you have anything at all to back up that statement??

Don't get into economic arguments with Iquana, he's a shameless liar. Illegal immigrants are massive net drains on the taxpayer via not only transfer payments (partic healthcare and education), but also depressed wages.


Since they don't make any money, and what little they earn isn't even taxed anyway, they "free ride" on every service America offers them.


"The primary reason illegal households create a fiscal deficit at the federal level is that their much lower levels of education result in low incomes and tax payments that are only 28 percent that of other households. Thus, even though the costs they impose are estimated to be only 46 percent those of other households on average, there remains a significant net deficit."http://www.cis.org/High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor#conclusion
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:52 AM   #41
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So, no you don't have anything to back up "that pay more into the tax system then they receive"

It might be true, I doubt it but, getting a accurate picture just isn’t entirely possible.

So let’s try to take a fair look at the situation.

Do they pay Sales taxes? Yep,
State Federal and social security? Certainly some do.

They also use the roads paid for by taxes, Have the Same protection from our Armed forces. If their house is on fire the responders are not going to check their resident status before they decide if they are going to put it out. The police will patrol their neighborhoods and respond to their calls. They have Access to the city, state and National Parks . As a result of a 1982 Supreme Court decision, states are required to provide K-12 public education for students without legal immigrant status. It varies from state to state but they may be eligible for the in-state tuition rate. Health. Proof of citizenship is required to qualify for Medicaid, unless a woman is pregnant, or the situation is considered an "emergency”. Illegal immigrants are eligible for workers' compensation. If they show up at the emergency room they won’t be left to bleed out in the lobby. I sure many have fraudulent identification allowing them to obtain State and local benefits.
With the legal Tax payers that we can keep somewhat accurate tabs on, a small minority of the people pay most of the Taxes. So the likelihood of people here working under the table at the lower end of the economic ladder being on the profit side of the Government ledger seems pretty low.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:53 AM   #42
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[quote=patteeu;9989840]What do illegal immigrants have to do with his post? QUOTE]

Good Point..
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:41 PM   #43
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Don't get into economic arguments with Iquana, he's a shameless liar. Illegal immigrants are massive net drains on the taxpayer via not only transfer payments (partic healthcare and education), but also depressed wages.


Since they don't make any money, and what little they earn isn't even taxed anyway, they "free ride" on every service America offers them.


"The primary reason illegal households create a fiscal deficit at the federal level is that their much lower levels of education result in low incomes and tax payments that are only 28 percent that of other households. Thus, even though the costs they impose are estimated to be only 46 percent those of other households on average, there remains a significant net deficit."http://www.cis.org/High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor#conclusion
You keep calling me a liar, but have yet to say what I lied about.

Prove it or shut up.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
So, no you don't have anything to back up "that pay more into the tax system then they receive"

It might be true, I doubt it but, getting a accurate picture just isn’t entirely possible.

So let’s try to take a fair look at the situation.

Do they pay Sales taxes? Yep,
State Federal and social security? Certainly some do.

They also use the roads paid for by taxes, Have the Same protection from our Armed forces. If their house is on fire the responders are not going to check their resident status before they decide if they are going to put it out. The police will patrol their neighborhoods and respond to their calls. They have Access to the city, state and National Parks . As a result of a 1982 Supreme Court decision, states are required to provide K-12 public education for students without legal immigrant status. It varies from state to state but they may be eligible for the in-state tuition rate. Health. Proof of citizenship is required to qualify for Medicaid, unless a woman is pregnant, or the situation is considered an "emergency”. Illegal immigrants are eligible for workers' compensation. If they show up at the emergency room they won’t be left to bleed out in the lobby. I sure many have fraudulent identification allowing them to obtain State and local benefits.
With the legal Tax payers that we can keep somewhat accurate tabs on, a small minority of the people pay most of the Taxes. So the likelihood of people here working under the table at the lower end of the economic ladder being on the profit side of the Government ledger seems pretty low.
Is your entire argument that the use services they pay for, therefore what?

Here is another example and source of them paying more then they receive using actual Data, not your own personal hypotheticals.

http://www.californiahealthline.org/...ve-in-benefits

Quote:
Documented and undocumented immigrants have paid about $14 billion more annually into Medicare than they have received in benefits, according to a new study published in Health Affairs, the Los Angeles Times' "Politics Now" reports. According to "Politics Now," the report challenges the long-held, popular belief that immigrants are draining resources from the program (Levey, "Politics Now," Los Angeles Times, 5/29).
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