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Old 09-26-2013, 06:07 AM  
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Chiefs' offense: "one of the worst in the league, by nearly every measure"

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/9...chiefs-offense

some numbers to chew on from arrowhead pride

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The Chiefs are actually 12th in the league in PPG, at 23.7. But if you take away the 14 points the defense is directly responsible for, that number drops to 19 PPG, which would be tied for 23rd - with the Raiders. The Chiefs are relying on the defense to score points, which isn't good. Defensive scoring is random and shouldn't be part of the game plan. They didn't need Tamba Hali's pick-6 to beat the Jaguars, but they did need Eric Berry's against the Eagles.

They also are just not moving the ball; their 333 yds/gm is 21st in the league and their 4.9 yds/play ranks 25th. "Well Kyle," you may ask, " if the Chiefs offense is so bad, how are they undefeated this year?" That's an excellent question, thank you for asking. The answer is that the defense and special teams are much, much better than we thought.
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The problem the Chiefs are having is getting to the Red Zone in the first place. They're 30th in yards per drive, with only Tampa Bay and Jacksonville behind them, and Cleveland directly in front of them (not good company to be in). This is a really, really bad offense. But here's the real kicker: the Chiefs' offense has the best starting field position in the NFL this year, and still can't score.
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The Chiefs average 17 yards per drive better field position than their opponents (ok, ok, 16.95), the best mark in the NFL (2nd table). Only two other teams average more than 10 yards better starting field position than their opponents (New England and Chicago). The Chiefs' average starting line of scrimmage (LOS) is their own 36.97 yard line (best in the NFL), while their opponents average starting LOS is their own 20.02 yard line (also best in the NFL). What all of that means is the Chiefs's offense is handed consistently great starting field position and can't do anything with it, then they let the special teams pin opponents deep in their own territory. The defense bails out the offense by not letting opponents move the ball, giving the offense the ball back with great starting field position. Lather, rinse, repeat.
There's a nice breakdown of our defense against philly over there as well:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/9/2...p-kelly-eagles

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I have to reiterate and emphasize just how much the Chiefs played man to man -- like a ton of it. And they have the secondary to handle it, unlike most teams in the NFL. Specifically, they matched up Sean Smith on Cooper a lot on the outside. If this had been a prize fight, Cooper's corner would have thrown in the towel somewhere around the middle of the second quarter. Smith owned him right up until the end of the game when he started cramping up. Cooper just couldn't shake him, especially on those aforementioned deep routes Kelly had him running all game.

Last edited by the Talking Can; 09-26-2013 at 06:49 AM..
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:49 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I'd probably play dumb were I you as well.

You were among the loudest and most aggressive of the Piolismokers from day 1. Oh you changed your mind after a couple of years, but anyone that suggested that Pioli flat ****ed up the coaching search or the 2009 draft was greeted with both barrels by you.

I don't truly care - you were wrong. It's happened before, it'll happen again. But in the end, its incredibly hypocritical for you to call folks out for trying to look at past performance to dictate future results when that was your rallying cry when Pioli showed up.
I don't think putting blame on people who wanted to give Pioli time in that first year necessarily makes them Nazi war criminals.

Coming out of a long and painful regime like Carl Peterson's, which finished out with nice smelly 4-12/2-14 seasons, would make anybody hopeful for the next guy, and if he had a resume like Pioli's, it's only natural to take the stance of "He just needs some time."

That doesn't make us war criminals. But we were all guilty. Every single one of us.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:52 PM   #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Yeah, that victim mentality works great right after you throw out passive-aggressive shots over the bow like "Well if we had drafted Geno the SB would be an option this year. "

It's like you can't leave it alone. Literally nobody else was talking about anything that had anything to do with that. Yet there you go.
First off, I am not playing the victim so **** yourself with that one.

Secondly what I said was appropriate.

The fact I am being labeled the Geno guy and you all are the victim is one of the funniest attempts at a spin I have ever seen on CP.

Nice try though.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

Everyone should be a Pro Bowler or the team will go 2-14.
OK. What does it take to make the criticisms legitimate?

1. He needs a TE (or two?). How good are we talking?
2. He needs a RT and what else on the Oline? The 49ers built him a pretty damn good line. Is that what it takes?
3. He needs a slot receiver. Again, what caliber?

Do you think when he gets all of those things, he will become a QB capable of spreading a defense? Will he become 300+ yd QB?
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:54 PM   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
OK. What does it take to make the criticisms legitimate?

1. He needs a TE (or two?). How good are we talking?
2. He needs a RT and what else on the Oline? The 49ers built him a pretty damn good line. Is that what it takes?
3. He needs a slot receiver. Again, what caliber?

Do you think when he gets all of those things, he will become a QB capable of spreading a defense? Will he become 300+ yd QB?
At this point from watching the games, and then watching them again, he needs a little more OL help. That's it. The end.

Not All Pro just competent play.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:55 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
You've referred to me twice in this thread as being "obtuse" because I disagreed with you.

Well, you sure showed me!
I referred to you being obtuse because I think you are deliberately twisting comments to avoid the meat of the argument. Saying things like " yeah it would be better to have 6 ints and be 1-2" as if that's what anyone is actually saying or even hinting at.

Maybe you aren't being intentionally obtuse. But if it's not intentional, you're an imbecile.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
OK. What does it take to make the criticisms legitimate?

1. He needs a TE (or two?). How good are we talking?
2. He needs a RT and what else on the Oline? The 49ers built him a pretty damn good line. Is that what it takes?
3. He needs a slot receiver. Again, what caliber?

Do you think when he gets all of those things, he will become a QB capable of spreading a defense? Will he become 300+ yd QB?
I think as far as the criticisms go he wants you guys to just stop bitching like 3 year olds about something you can't control.

What he's discussing is how to improve the offense as a whole, and it's all perfectly logical. Interior linemen are very important when you use short drops (look at how the Saints OL is built... great interior) and Alex is going to do a lot of that and he's going to throw short over the middle a lot. He's not exactly explaining rocket science, nor is he telling anyone how Alex is going to become a top 5 QB.

Alex will not be a top 5 QB, but you can win with him and the offense CAN get better with him. Instead it degenerates into bitching about Alex Smith. It's redundant.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
But if it's not intentional, you're an imbecile.
Yeah, let's go with that
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #638
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
First off, I am not playing the victim so **** yourself with that one.

Secondly what I said was appropriate.

The fact I am being labeled the Geno guy and you all are the victim is one of the funniest attempts at a spin I have ever seen on CP.

Nice try though.
i'll count up all my posts in the last month that mention Geno (it's 3)

and you count up yours (hint: shitloads)


then we can say who is and who is not obsessed with Geno Smith, deal?
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:57 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
I referred to you being obtuse because I think you are deliberately twisting comments to avoid the meat of the argument. Saying things like " yeah it would be better to have 6 ints and be 1-2" as if that's what anyone is actually saying or even hinting at.

Maybe you aren't being intentionally obtuse. But if it's not intentional, you're an imbecile.
To me it says they don't believe Alex Smith can throw the ball downfield without it being an interception.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
I think as far as the criticisms go he wants you guys to just stop bitching like 3 year olds about something you can't control.

What he's discussing is how to improve the offense as a whole, and it's all perfectly logical. Interior linemen are very important when you use short drops (look at how the Saints OL is built... great interior) and Alex is going to do a lot of that and he's going to throw short over the middle a lot. He's not exactly explaining rocket science, nor is he telling anyone how Alex is going to become a top 5 QB.

Alex will not be a top 5 QB, but you can win with him and the offense CAN get better with him.
Very nice.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
That doesn't make us war criminals. But we were all guilty. Every single one of us.
Yep. Lot of revisionist history.

It's also amazing how many more Elvis Grbac fans there were in 1998 (not to mention '99 or 2000) than there are folks that admit to it today. Hindsight makes us all much smarter.

I'm trying to be consistent with these guys. I did not like the Reid hire. I did like the Dorsey hire. And I do like that the way the org is structured now, Dorsey is the personnel guy and Reid is hands off there. Maybe that was Reid's downfall in Philly.

I didn't like the Alex Smith trade (which is part of the reason I didn't like the Reid hire, I believed in February they were a package deal), or acquiring Chase Daniel, but I did like that they were able to get Bray for nothing. None of this has anything to do with Geno Smith.

I hated the idea of drafting any offensive lineman with the first pick, and that also had nothing to do with Geno Smith. There were at least a half dozen other players that I thought and still think would have made more sense than Fisher, or Joeckel, or anyone else. That's just my mind-set: I prefer playmakers to linemen. I think that pick set a rather disappointing tone to the beginning of a new era of Chiefs football.

But I hope it works out.

The fact that I think any of this doesn't make me a bad fan, or a stupid fan, or a blind fan, or a fair weather fan. I'm just an opinionated fan.

And the same is true when I say that I hope Andy Reid is able to coach Alex Smith to be a bit more aggressive throwing the ball downfield, something he openely spoke to during the summer. So apparently our illustrious new HC sees some of the same things that we "negative nancy" fans see, and believes he can coach some improvement there.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #642
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The offense worries me. I'm not sold on Smith at QB. He might be a slight improvement over Cassel, but I remain as unimpressed with his "dink and dunk" strategy as much as I was with Cassels "dink and dunk" strategy...

At least he doesn't turn the ball over, and he was fairly clutch at least in the Eagles game; converting 3rd and long when the game was literally on the line. But against an offense like the Broncos, he will have to do a lot more than just dink and dunk it. Especially if we are to go deep into the playoffs.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #643
the Talking Can the Talking Can is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
I think as far as the criticisms go he wants you guys to just stop bitching like 3 year olds about something you can't control.

What he's discussing is how to improve the offense as a whole, and it's all perfectly logical. Interior linemen are very important when you use short drops (look at how the Saints OL is built... great interior) and Alex is going to do a lot of that and he's going to throw short over the middle a lot. He's not exactly explaining rocket science, nor is he telling anyone how Alex is going to become a top 5 QB.

Alex will not be a top 5 QB, but you can win with him and the offense CAN get better with him.
Dane's opinion about Smith isn't reality...(imo, not even close)

amazing the conflation though...this whole thing boils down to: stop talking about things you want to talk about because Dane says so

really, really dumb
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:59 PM   #644
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:00 PM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can View Post
i'll count up all my posts in the last month that mention Geno (it's 3)

and you count up yours (hint: shitloads)


then we can say who is and who is not obsessed with Geno Smith, deal?
Don't care.

I never said YOU were obsessed with Geno, you claimed I was.
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