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Old 09-26-2013, 01:28 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Boehner says he will not pass a clean bill from Reid

House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) insisted Thursday that the government would not shut down, but he also flatly refused to pass a "clean" spending bill to keep Uncle Sam in business next week when the bank account runs dry.

"I do not see that happening," Boehner told reporters on Capitol Hill after meeting with Republican legislators.

The House passed a measure last week to fund the government after Sept. 30 only if Democrats agree to strip spending from Obamacare. The Senate is in the process of removing the health care defunding and plans to send a simple spending bill back to the House by this weekend. That bill would keep the government running until Nov. 15.

Boehner declared, "I don't expect" the government to close. But he did not explain how he and his Republican caucus could amend the Senate bill, debate it, vote on it and send it back to the Senate for more action there before Oct. 1.

"There will be options available to us," Boehner said. "There's not going to be any speculation about what we're going to do or not do until the Senate passes their bill."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3996800.html
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:14 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Any takers from the left on this one?
Um, because he doesn't have too. There is no leverage.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post

and B) That taking the government and economy hostage to force the will of the minority onto the nation is some how a winnable strategy.

Good Luck with that.
The problem with this is that if you look at ANY poll out there, the MAJORITY of the American people say they oppose Obamacare. INFACT, the majority of the people opposed it when it was passed. So the only group forcing the will of the minority is the democrats.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Not remember when You said this? "The American public voted a new "parent" into office when they elected the current House"

Hey guess what numbnuts, I can say the same thing about the President.
Again, please take a govt class or three. The "parent" of our govt over FUNDING is the House. The "parent' over the Constitution is the Supreme Court... etc etc...

Just because you want Obama to be in charge of all things doesn't make it so. Your rebuttal holds ZERO credence when applied to our current form of govt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Maybe if you think a little bit, you might understand how saying "Give us what we want, or we crash the economy and stop the goverment" isn't exactly the best strategy to sell to the American public that voted for the Guy who said he wouldn't end it.

See, your confusion here is A) thinking defudning Obamacare gets rid of it. It doesn't. That money is already there. I suggest actually reading up on the issue, because you seem to think this will actually get rid of ObamaCare.

and B) That taking the government and economy hostage to force the will of the minority onto the nation is some how a winnable strategy.

Good Luck with that.
A)So if this doesn't matter then why did Obama say he would veto it? The funding is THERE so why not let the House say "no funding" and then pass it as such and just keep trucking? Sorry, I guess you know far more about this than not just me but also the Senate and Obama. We are amazed at your brilliance!

B)The minority? The MAJORITY don't want OBamacare. So if we want to talk about a MINORITY forcing crap on the people.. it's the President and the Senate. (and don't try the "majority say they don't want it defunded in this way" bullshit, that is all poll wording, there are polls showing the opposite)


So basically you support the spoiled kid's argument. Big surprise there. "IF I STARVE IT'S YOUR FAULT! WAAA!" even though you'd be fully funded if you just stop spending money on shit the people don't want.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:24 PM   #94
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Um, because he doesn't have too. There is no leverage.
Makes perfect sense. This thing is so screwed up he will only enforce part of it...I know cause he doesn't have to. He is willing to shutdown the government over this train wreck (a term used by both parties ) I know cause he doesn't have to. Great stance!
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:29 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
The problem with this is that if you look at ANY poll out there, the MAJORITY of the American people say they oppose Obamacare. INFACT, the majority of the people opposed it when it was passed. So the only group forcing the will of the minority is the democrats.
Again, I'll post this.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...0&postcount=46
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Last edited by AustinChief; 09-27-2013 at 03:32 PM.. Reason: No, no you won't. Just link to it, don't repost giant graphs that junk up the thread like a complete tool.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:30 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You continue to not understand that ObamaCare is funded no matter what happens in this fight.

Your fundamentally misunderstanding of what is going on invalidates any further views you have until you educate yourself.

Please come back when you know what is going on.
You REALLY need to do some of your own research some day instead of getting spoonfed by Momma Maddow.

Again, it's getting tiresome explaining crap to you all the time.

IF the govt "shuts down" then Obamacare is still funded.(mostly, this gets murky but I'll keep it simple for you)

IF this CR gets passed then Obamacare is NOT funded. Period. All unobligated balances are rescinded. (That means we'll pay any obligations we already have, past bills as such, but not anything going forward)
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #97
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Again, please take a govt class or three. The "parent" of our govt over FUNDING is the House. The "parent' over the Constitution is the Supreme Court... etc etc...

Just because you want Obama to be in charge of all things doesn't make it so. Your rebuttal holds ZERO credence when applied to our current form of govt.

See, there you go with the Strawman again. Saying the president was elected over the guy who specifically said he would end does not equal "in charge of all things".

Learn how to not strawman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
A)So if this doesn't matter then why did Obama say he would veto it? The funding is THERE so why not let the House say "no funding" and then pass it as such and just keep trucking? Sorry, I guess you know far more about this than not just me but also the Senate and Obama. We are amazed at your brilliance!
This is great example of how someone attempts to hide their stupidity. Yes, ObamaCare is not ended with defunding. The only way to end ObamaCare is to force a shutdown to make Obama agree to end it.

Why would he veto it? Well, there is all the other crap in there too that the GOP took hostages for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
B)The minority? The MAJORITY don't want OBamacare. So if we want to talk about a MINORITY forcing crap on the people.. it's the President and the Senate. (and don't try the "majority say they don't want it defunded in this way" bullshit, that is all poll wording, there are polls showing the opposite)

So basically you support the spoiled kid's argument. Big surprise there. "IF I STARVE IT'S YOUR FAULT! WAAA!" even though you'd be fully funded if you just stop spending money on shit the people don't want.
The only people acting like spoiled kids are republicans (minority in government) who use funding the government and not crashing the economy as negotiation tools.

Seriously, learn the issue.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I'm not entirely sure what your response is intended to indicate. I see nothing addressing the FACT that the majority of Americans opposed Obamacare being implemented in the first place.

The only minority enforcing their will is the democrats. You can argue that all you want but, you cannot doe so factually.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:39 PM   #99
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I don't approve of AustinChief deleting a post that had two extra graphics, So Ill post the two he deleted again.




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Old 09-27-2013, 03:40 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
I'm not entirely sure what your response is intended to indicate. I see nothing addressing the FACT that the majority of Americans opposed Obamacare being implemented in the first place.

The only minority enforcing their will is the democrats. You can argue that all you want but, you cannot doe so factually.
I can do it factually.

We elected the president who said he wouldn't end it. And I posted a graphic that shows who popular the individual parts of the law are.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
See, there you go with the Strawman again. Saying the president was elected over the guy who specifically said he would end does not equal "in charge of all things".

Learn how to not strawman.
Holy crap. You still don't get it. SERIOUSLY TAKE A ****ING US GOVT CLASS. The people elect the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES to control funding. They did not elect Obama for that reason. People like YOu may think that's the case but that isn't our system of government. Shouting OBAMA over and over doesn't help you in the debate in the least. Calling my argument a strawman is also ridiculous. Maybe add some debate classes to the list as well.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
This is great example of how someone attempts to hide their stupidity. Yes, ObamaCare is not ended with defunding. The only way to end ObamaCare is to force a shutdown to make Obama agree to end it.

Why would he veto it? Well, there is all the other crap in there too that the GOP took hostages for.

The only people acting like spoiled kids are republicans (minority in government) who use funding the government and not crashing the economy as negotiation tools.

Seriously, learn the issue.
HAHAHA. I need to learn the issue? You just (yet again) showed your ass on this. Please do some GENUINE research before showing up unarmed to the debate next time.

Ok, so Al or Cosmo would you like to provide some worthwhile sport on this subject? Junior here isn't any fun.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #102
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Makes perfect sense. This thing is so screwed up he will only enforce part of it...I know cause he doesn't have to. He is willing to shutdown the government over this train wreck (a term used by both parties ) I know cause he doesn't have to. Great stance!
I love how Congress using the government funding and not crashing the economy as negotiation tools to get what they want is somehow Obama shutting down the government.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
I don't approve of AustinChief deleting a post that had two extra graphics, So Ill post the two he deleted again.
Sorry about that I thought it was the same GIANT graph as before and I hate when people quote or repost giant graphics and junk up threads. My bad. I didn't notice the two others were new.

Next time LINK the old one and post the new... but again, that was my bad not noticing. Mea Culpa.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:50 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Holy crap. You still don't get it. SERIOUSLY TAKE A ****ING US GOVT CLASS. The people elect the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES to control funding. That did not elect Obama for that reason. People like YOu may think that's the case but that isn't our system of government. Shouting OBAMA over and over doesn't help you in the debate in the least. Calling my argument a strawman is also ridiculous. Maybe add some debate classes to the list as well.



Yes, taking Obama was elected over the guy who said he would end Obama Care to equal "Obama is in charge of all things" is a strawman. It is taking something to the extreme.

I don't know why you seem to think this argument is about who controls funding, that is all in your head. The argument is about using funding the government as a bargaining chip to get your way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
HAHAHA. I need to learn the issue? You just (yet again) showed your ass on this. Please do some GENUINE research before showing up unarmed to the debate next time.

Ok, so Al or Cosmo would you like to provide some worthwhile sport on this subject? Junior here isn't any fun.
Yes learn the issue. Or continue to make yourself look stupid. Either or man.

Edit. Just to add
Quote:
It’s important to keep in mind that a government shutdown does not, in and of itself, stop Obamacare from going forward. Most of the money for that law has been appropriated through channels (tax credits, state-based exchanges, etc.) immune to shutdown. The Obamacare-shutdown method relies on the hope that keeping the government shut down proves so annoying to the president that he (or a filibuster-proof majority in both houses) submits to abolishing his health-care reform in return for reopening the government. That is the only way shutting down the government could result in the defunding of Obamacare.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...o.html?mid=rss

And Obama will never sign anything that takes it away. So, Republicans will waste taxpayer money passing legislation that are nonstarters, using the economy and government shut down as hostages. And they will be blamed accordingly.
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Last edited by Loneiguana; 09-27-2013 at 04:01 PM..
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:50 PM   #105
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I can do it factually.

We elected the president who said he wouldn't end it. And I posted a graphic that shows who popular the individual parts of the law are.
That does not factually prove that the majority of the American people did not oppose Obamacare being made law at the time it happened.

As far as Romney was concerned, many feared because of Romneycare, Obamacare wasn't really going to go away any how. So that proves nothing.

As to your graphic, individual issues is one thing, the complete package that is Obamacare is another. The polls for the complete package don't look so good for your side.
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