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Old 09-30-2013, 12:33 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Senate kills House spending bill

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...spending-bill/
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:50 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
If it was about funding, then they should be talking about spending cuts and deficits then and not the ACA.
That's a valid point that they should ALWAYS be talking about those things but it doesn't invalidate them talking about one particular issue. Especially since they have a CLEAR mandate from their constituents on it. Fact is, Reid and his dirtbags are trying to twist the logic on this to say the extortion is happening in reverse to reality. And they will likely succeed, but it doesn't make it valid.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:58 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
ARGHHHHH! You are parroting the media bullshit. That simply ISN'T HOW IT WORKS. (or at least was set up to work)

So what you want is a House that just gives any and all funding to the Senate that the Senate wants. Period.

It is NOT unrelated. If it requires FUNDING it is within the HOUSE'S purview.

The ones usurping the process are the truculent Senate under Reid who refuse to listen to the WILL OF THE PEOPLE! They are the ones threatening DEFAULT. Just because you don't like it and just because Reid, Obama and the media repeat the same lie over and over and over again... doesn't make it true.

It is GLARINGLY clear that the House is responsible for funding and have said "the people don;t want this crap funded" and instead of dealing with it, the Senate SCREAMS DEFAULT! DEFAULT!

Sorry but this is on them.

(you are correct that the big lie will still go over and the GOP will get most of the blame)
No what I believe\want is that both sides of Congress share equally in most legislation.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:01 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
That's a valid point that they should ALWAYS be talking about those things but it doesn't invalidate them talking about one particular issue. Especially since they have a CLEAR mandate from their constituents on it. Fact is, Reid and his dirtbags are trying to twist the logic on this to say the extortion is happening in reverse to reality. And they will likely succeed, but it doesn't make it valid.
They don't have a clear mandate they lost the election by a landslide. They put up a candidate who ran on abolishing Obamacare.

Even the majority of the polls show that people don't want it defunded.

Quote:
A new survey of 1,976 registered voters finds that only 33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded. 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, and 12 percent believe that the law should be expanded. The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:01 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
No what I believe\want is that both sides of Congress share equally in most legislation.
ok so you want a different form of govt. Cuz that isn't how we are set up to function in regards to funding. And that's fine, but it doesn't change our current reality.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:06 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
They don't have a clear mandate they lost the election by a landslide. They put up a candidate who ran on abolishing Obamacare.

Even the majority of the polls show that people don't want it defunded.
Wrong wrong wrong. (wrong) They lost the election for President, let me know when we change our system to say that he is the one to originate govt funding. They won by a large proportion in the ONE PLACE that matters in regards to funding... the House. That is a MANDATE regarding funding issues.

And I can show you a poll from Rasmussen that shows that 51% want it defunded even by threat of DEFAULT. In our REPRESENTATIVE govt the polls are useful but what really matters is that these guys can be voted out of office every 2 years and that makes them much more responsible to the people.

Don't like it? Change the way our govt is set up. But there is NO WAY to logically support the idea that the GOP is the extortionist here. It simply doesn't wash. Period. It requires a big lie told over and over and a compliant media to even convince people that it is close to being the case... even when anyone who takes a step back can see otherwise.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So is the Senate just supposed to rubber stamp all House legislation?
The did when the Dems controlled the House.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
ok so you want a different form of govt. Cuz that isn't how we are set up to function in regards to funding. And that's fine, but it doesn't change our current reality.
The House still has to concur with the Senate in regards to funding bills. They just have to originate in the House.
Quote:
One notable exception to the equal sharing of legislative authority between the House and Senate is the requirement that "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives" (see Article I, Section 7). The Framers believed that Members of the House, being closest to the people, would have the greatest "knowledge of the interests and feelings of the people" and would be, therefore, more prudent than Senators in imposing taxes on the people. While the Senate must concur with any proposal made by the House, as with any other bill, the requirement that efforts to raise taxes begin in the House was clearly intended to provide a check against excessive taxes
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
That's a valid point that they should ALWAYS be talking about those things but it doesn't invalidate them talking about one particular issue. Especially since they have a CLEAR mandate from their constituents on it. Fact is, Reid and his dirtbags are trying to twist the logic on this to say the extortion is happening in reverse to reality. And they will likely succeed, but it doesn't make it valid.
They lost the moral high ground of fiscal responsibility. Making this about obamacare makes this look partisan and political,and not about putting the public first.

Rachel maddow is on right now showing all of the 2010 campaign stops and since where republicans were shouting about how awesome it would be to shut down the government.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Wrong wrong wrong. (wrong) They lost the election for President, let me know when we change our system to say that he is the one to originate govt funding. They won by a large proportion in the ONE PLACE that matters in regards to funding... the House. That is a MANDATE regarding funding issues.

And I can show you a poll from Rasmussen that shows that 51% want it defunded even by threat of DEFAULT. In our REPRESENTATIVE govt the polls are useful but what really matters is that these guys can be voted out of office every 2 years and that makes them much more responsible to the people.

Don't like it? Change the way our govt is set up. But there is NO WAY to logically support the idea that the GOP is the extortionist here. It simply doesn't wash. Period. It requires a big lie told over and over and a compliant media to even convince people that it is close to being the case... even when anyone who takes a step back can see otherwise.
And don't forget they lost the Senate as well. In reality they got their ass kicked and if people wanted Obamacare repealed they would have voted differently.

They will have a chance in 2016 though.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
The House still has to concur with the Senate in regards to funding bills. They just have to originate in the House.
Yes and the Prez can veto things. No one is saying the House should dominate, but it's clearly laid out that when it comes to funding the govt the House (being closest to the people) is the primary authority. So when you refuse to go along with the PRIMARY authority which (as stated) has the greatest "knowledge of the interests and feelings of the people" and would be, therefore, more prudent than Senators in imposing taxes on the people then YOU are the one BLOCKING the process. You are the one attempting to EXTORT the people with a threat of default.

Thank you for posting that snippet, it perfectly supports my argument.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
They lost the moral high ground of fiscal responsibility. Making this about obamacare makes this look partisan and political,and not about putting the public first.

Rachel maddow is on right now showing all of the 2010 campaign stops and since where republicans were shouting about how awesome it would be to shut down the government.
BFD. **** Maddow. The democrats shut down the ****ing government 12 times, lest they forget so quickly. It is partisan and political. But that is just as much to blame on the Dems. They said nothing when Obama illegally tweaked the AHAC 17 times. They said nothing about big business getting a delay. They are saying nothing as to why individuals are being forced to do something their King just gave his donors a pass on.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
They lost the moral high ground of fiscal responsibility. Making this about obamacare makes this look partisan and political,and not about putting the public first.

Rachel maddow is on right now showing all of the 2010 campaign stops and since where republicans were shouting about how awesome it would be to shut down the government.
I don't agree but honestly who cares? Moral high ground? Media representation of the issue? Those are all important to the POLITICS. I am only debating REALITY.. not perception. The blame for extorting the people with a default is CLEARLY on Reid. There has yet to be ONE argument that shows anything close to otherwise. You can be happy that the public likely won;t see it that way, but owell.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
And don't forget they lost the Senate as well. In reality they got their ass kicked and if people wanted Obamacare repealed they would have voted differently.

They will have a chance in 2016 though.
Ass kicked? The Repubs whipped the ****ing Dems in the House in 2010 in historical fashion. How quickly some of you forget this shit.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:17 PM   #89
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The did when the Dems controlled the House.
And the Reps did when they controlled all 3 branches underneath Bush.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:18 PM   #90
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Where Boehner ****ed up was when he said little to nothing about Obama unilaterally changing passed law. He would have a better leg to stand on had he spoke up then.
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