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Old 10-01-2013, 12:27 AM  
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For House Republicans, confrontation is safer than compromise

By Andy Sullivan
WASHINGTON | Tue Oct 1, 2013 1:04am EDT

(Reuters) - For most Republicans in the House of Representatives, the only greater peril than shutting down the federal government would have been fighting to keep it open.

While a shutdown could hurt the Republican Party's ability to win the Senate next year or take the White House in 2016, that's not the concern of party members in the House, who led the push to pair continued government funding with measures that would delay President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law.

"There's a large cohort of members here who don't feel themselves harmed by a bad brand name for the party," said Sarah Binder, an expert on Congress at the Brookings Institution.

Instead, the peril comes from being seen as too flexible.

Republicans won control of the House in 2010 with help from the grassroots Tea Party movement, which combines strident conservatism with a mistrust of Washington dealmaking.

The standing of the movement in public opinion polls has declined somewhat since then, according to a recent nationwide Gallup poll.

Tea Party lawmakers don't run for office nationally, but in districts where they are more secure than ever in their jobs, thanks to careful redistricting after the 2010 census and increased polarization among voters.

The Cook Political Report, a Washington tipsheet, estimates that 205 of the chamber's 232 Republicans can count on a safe re-election race a year from now. Only 11 Republican seats are viewed as competitive.

With little pressure to court centrist voters, Tea Party-aligned Republicans face greater pressure to show conservative activists that they are staying true to their ideological roots than working to keep the government operating effectively.

Thus it may be easier to allow the government to run out of money rather than face accusations that they did not fight hard enough against Obama's Affordable Care Act.

"They're in a much better position when they go home and explain a 'no' vote that they cast as a protest vote against the White House than a 'yes' vote where they have to explain what they voted for," said Kevin Madden, a former Republican House leadership aide.

HEADS THEY LOSE, TAILS THEY LOSE

Republicans stood little chance of emerging victorious from the fight. Obamacare will begin enrolling uninsured Americans as scheduled on Tuesday, and if the government shuts down, voters are likely to blame Republicans.

A CNN poll released on Monday found that 46 percent of those surveyed would hold Republicans responsible, while 36 would blame Obama. The poll also found that two of three voters say it's more important to keep the government open than to block Obamacare.

As House Republicans worry more about a challenge to their right flank than defeat from a Democratic challenger back home, they push their party farther from the mainstream even as their own seats remain secure.

That could complicate the party's efforts to appeal to a greater cross-section of American voters nationally after two successive presidential defeats, veteran Republicans say.

"It's a definite move towards helping make sure that the Republican Party is a regional party that probably controls the House of Representatives for the foreseeable future, but jeopardizes the ability to take back the Senate and the White House in 2016," said former Representative Steve LaTourette, a moderate Republican who retired last year.

Paradoxically, the secure electoral status of Tea Party lawmakers has undercut their party's ability to advance its agenda. House Speaker John Boehner has struggled to keep his party unified on key votes ranging from farm policy to transportation issues to tax increases.

Those Republicans who have defied Boehner most consistently tend to come from districts where Obama only won 35 percent of the vote in the 2012 election, according to an analysis by Binder. Those who have consistently backed him on high-profile votes are from districts where Obama got an average of 43 percent of the vote.

Boehner had trouble keeping his troops in line during the shutdown fight as well. Mindful of the negative fallout his party faced from the last government shutdown in 1995 and 1996, he urged his colleagues to avoid a confrontation.

But his words have carried little weight. House Republicans voted three separate times to pair continued government funding with steps that would weaken Obamacare despite a veto threat from the president.

No matter how the current battle ends, other showdowns - notably the debt ceiling - loom in coming weeks as conservative lawmakers look for additional chances to stand up to Obama.

"There's going to be a number of crises from here all the way to Election Day," Madden said. "This is only one part of all these battles."

(Editing by Fred Barbash and Philip Barbara)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...&dlvrit=574655
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:44 AM   #46
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Obama has given us quite a few reasons to believe he'll either fall for just about anything and/or cave to just about any pressure. Unfortunately, he has Harry Reid blocking for him when it comes to negotiations with Republicans in Congress. As much as I despise Harry Reid, we need someone like him to protect us from Obama's incompetence in foreign policy.

I acknowledge the wisdom of what you say about negotiations. It would be nice if we had a President with some ability to engage his opposition in fruitful negotiation, but we don't. He's been terrible at bringing the country together. Surely we can agree on that much.
Fruitful negotiation would be negotiations that don't center on funding the government.

If republicans were serious about this negotiation B.s. you are spewing, they would negotiate without attaching the CR or debt ceiling to the deal. Where they can't say "do what we want to fund the government"

But, because Republicans don't actually want to negotiate, because that means giving things up, they hide behind the Debt ceiling and CR, holding it hostage until they get what they want.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:45 AM   #47
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Quit griping.

If you don't want to be part of Obamacare, you don't have to. Just get a job in congress. Problem solved.
I have to assume you have no idea what you are talking about because that makes no sense.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:52 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Fruitful negotiation would be negotiations that don't center on funding the government.

If republicans were serious about this negotiation B.s. you are spewing, they would negotiate without attaching the CR or debt ceiling to the deal. Where they can't say "do what we want to fund the government"

But, because Republicans don't actually want to negotiate, because that means giving things up, they hide behind the Debt ceiling and CR, holding it hostage until they get what they want.
No
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:02 AM   #49
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Who wants a government shutdown more, in your opinion? That should tell you who caused this shutdown. I don't see how anyone can conclude that Republicans want it more than democrats, especially if you believe it will be a political loser for Republicans.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No
Can you answer these questions?

Why is this attached to funding the government?

Why do Republicans get to say "we'll pass the CR if you do this"?

Why do Republicans get to add a "if statement" to funding the government?

Do Republicans want the government to shut down and passing the CR is seen as some sort of give away? Are Republicans saying "We don't want to fund the government, but we will if you compromise"?

And if the Republicans do want to keep the government operating and not default on debt, why do the democrats have to make any concessions?

If both parties want to fund the government and not crash the economy, why are Republicans placing demands on it?

And what are the Republicans willing to give up for these demands?
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:08 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Who wants a government shutdown more, in your opinion? That should tell you who caused this shutdown. I don't see how anyone can conclude that Republicans want it more than democrats, especially if you believe it will be a political loser for Republicans.
Republicans want to end ObamaCare.

The only way to end ObamaCare is a majority in the government.

OR shut down the government until a majority in government get annoyed enough at the shut down of government to give in to the demands to end ObamaCare.

Answer. Republicans.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Can you answer these questions?
I'm not interested in an extended dialogue with you, but I'll answer your questions.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Why is this attached to funding the government?
Because it becomes an appeal to the people by doing so. We have a decades-long history from both parties using this tactic when the other party controls the White House.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Why do Republicans get to say "we'll pass the CR if you do this"?
Because they won control of the House of Representives in the last election.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Why do Republicans get to add a "if statement" to funding the government?
The Constitution allows the House to originate funding bills in the fashion that they so choose within constraints set out in the Constitution. This is clearly within those constraints.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Do Republicans want the government to shut down and passing the CR is seen as some sort of give away? Are Republicans saying "We don't want to fund the government, but we will if you compromise"?
No and no. They want to fund government and delay Obamacare's personal mandate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And if the Republicans do want to keep the government operating and not default on debt, why do the democrats have to make any concessions?
Governing is about compromise in our system. The democrats have three options. They can (1) accept the funding bills originated in the House and keep the government running, (2) reject the funding bills originated in the House and unilaterally cause a shutdown of the government, or (3) find a way to reach a compromise with the House that both sides can be happy with.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
If both parties want to fund the government and not crash the economy, why are Republicans placing demands on it?
They don't. Obama and his democrats want a shutdown.

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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And what are the Republicans willing to give up for these demands?
They unilaterally offered to give up on their effort to defund Obamacare completely. We don't know what else they'd be willing to give up if democrats were willing to bargain in good faith and make concessions of their own.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:33 AM   #53
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I also spoke to a leading Democratic congresscritter over the weekend who told me that, very soon, the Democrats in the Senate will start going through the sequester line-by-line, demanding public votes on funding things like medical research and environmental protections, and sticking Republicans with a choice of being for or against curing, say, Alzheimer's Disease or cancer. As someone who thought the sequester not merely stupid but Beltway stupid, I applaud this decision as well. Forcing people into uncomfortable votes works both ways. Making John Boehner cry should be a bipartisan affair.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:06 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Fruitful negotiation would be negotiations that don't center on funding the government.

If republicans were serious about this negotiation B.s. you are spewing, they would negotiate without attaching the CR or debt ceiling to the deal. Where they can't say "do what we want to fund the government"

But, because Republicans don't actually want to negotiate, because that means giving things up, they hide behind the Debt ceiling and CR, holding it hostage until they get what they want.
It would be better if neither side attached unrelated items to bills but it just doesn’t work that way.

If our honorable congressmen can’t fill a hurricane relief bill with Pork on hold those funds hostage… I don’t see how anyone can act surprised at the gamesmanship currently on display. The Republicans and Democrats work for their respective Party first. Their local constituents second and the general welfare of the United States, at best a distant 3rd.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:08 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Republicans want to end ObamaCare.

The only way to end ObamaCare is a majority in the government.

OR shut down the government until a majority in government get annoyed enough at the shut down of government to give in to the demands to end ObamaCare.

Answer. Republicans.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:25 PM   #56
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With the public overwhelmingly agreein the Govt is doing too much, that's a battle the Dems would be fools to incite.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #57
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Maybe what you said makes sense, but mostly I'm just:

It's not all that confusing. You claim Americans voted for Obama because of Obamacare, and the polling data showed then and now, that's false.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #58
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It's not all that confusing. You claim Americans voted for Obama because of Obamacare, and the polling data showed then and now, that's false.
Well, they certainly didn't vote for the guy who pledged to repeal it on Day 1.

There's also a lot of people against "Obamacare" but in favor of the stuff that's in it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Governing is about compromise in our system. The democrats have three options. They can (1) accept the funding bills originated in the House and keep the government running, (2) reject the funding bills originated in the House and unilaterally cause a shutdown of the government, or (3) find a way to reach a compromise with the House that both sides can be happy with.
Quote:
They don't. Obama and his democrats want a shutdown.
Only in Pat's world does a failure of two sides to negotiate a compromise mean that one side unilaterally blew things up.


Quote:
They unilaterally offered to give up on their effort to defund Obamacare completely.
A meaningless offer since funding bills aren't indefinite anyway. Even if they WANTED to just "defund" the Affordable Care Act "permanently" I'm not aware of any mechanic by which they could achieve that, short of repealing the law altogether, which is of course impossible with Obama still in the WH and the Senate held by Democrats.

Quote:
We don't know what else they'd be willing to give up if democrats were willing to bargain in good faith and make concessions of their own.
Perhaps for political points the Democrats could come up with meaningless concessions, sure. "Let's just fund Obamacare this year and we'll promise that we won't commit to funding Obamacare forever! It's a good faith offer!!"
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's not all that confusing. You claim Americans voted for Obama because of Obamacare, and the polling data showed then and now, that's false.

That sentence makes much more sense than your first stab at it, let's just say that.
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