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Old 10-01-2013, 01:13 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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US Government Shutdown: blame whoever spent all the money

This is a pretty hilarious recounting of how we got here from The Telegraph...

US Government Shutdown: don't blame the Republicans – blame whoever spent all the money

Okay, so let's get the mainstream media analysis of the looming shutdown out of the way first. The House Republicans are led by a moderate weakling (Boehner) who is being held hostage by a gaggle of Tea Party crazies determined to destroy a humanitarian law known as Obamacare that is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to rescue us from disease, poverty, global warming and Robin Thicke. Obama (Father of the Nation and possibly Jesus, but he's too humble to admit it) and the lions of the Senate are standing their ground.

And so the Federal Government faces catastrophe because a GOP alliance of cowards and loons won't see reason and bend to the public will as represented by the glorious Democrats. Prepare yourself for society to collapse as museum workers don't turn up for work in the morning…

The reality is that this crisis has been caused by two things: a) overspending and b) the Constitution of the United States. On the overspend, the US has reached this point of crisis because it has failed to curtail spending effectively – and it has failed to do that because Democrats have consistently refused to make genuinely tough choices (the dreaded sequester was, itself, a plan to delay making a plan that has now started catching up with the President who called for a sequester in the first place).

I could recite all those big debt numbers that run into hundreds of zeroes but for a simpler sense of the madness consider the spending spree that has been going on in just the past few days. In a dash to "use it or lose it", The Washington Post reports that,
This past week, the Department of Veterans Affairs bought $562,000 worth of artwork. In a single day, the Agriculture Department spent $144,000 on toner cartridges. And, in a single purchase, the Coast Guard spent $178,000 on “Cubicle Furniture Rehab.”
Why the heck does the Agriculture Department require so much toner? Is it 3-D printing wheat? And, while we're at it, if we're being told that the shutdown will only affect "non-essential personnel" doesn't that imply that the US government currently employs a lot of "non-essential" people? If so, why?

Now spending wouldn't be a political issue if one party controlled all three branches of government, but it does not. The American people voted in 2012 for divided government, giving the presidency and Senate to the Democrats and the House to the Republicans. Republicans in the House are thus not only constitutionally entitled to opposed Democrat spending plans like Obamacare but they actually have both a mandate and a democratic responsibility to do so – a responsibility to represent the will of the people, a majority of whom are against Obamacare. We call this the American Way. A lot of observers don't seem to understand it, which is depressing.

You might say that the American Way is the wrong way, that political partisanship is heading towards a shutdown and – who knows? – the End of the World? But that's not what history teaches us. The US government has shut down SEVENTEEN times in the past. When it did so in 1996, the economy chugged along nicely without that bit of federal assistance and the end result was welfare reform. This from Bloomberg is revealing:
A quick check of the performance of the S&P 500 stock index during previous shutdowns suggests that equity prices might actually benefit from a brief suspension of federal government activities.
What a surprise. Life with a little less government activity is just fine.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...all-the-money/
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:16 PM   #16
Halfcan Halfcan is offline
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Come April the American people need to have a Shut Down- Every person that owes should file an extension and then another. This year I had to wait 5 weeks to get my refund-when I called they said they were waiting for people to pay before they could pay out refunds.

The Gov. is flat broke and should be completely overhauled.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade View Post
Well, I *can't* go into details, but this "democrats love to spend" crap "ahem, Bush", by using outrageous sticker prices is a huge red herring. Not saying there isn't government culpability, but I personally sat in on a meeting where we (yes, the dreaded U.S. Government) wanted to implement a beneficial system, that was held up by "powers that be" because of what is commonly referred to as "red tape". Now, everyone in the room knows the real reason this is being held up is because why would we want to do something effective and cost efficient when there's an outside contractor out there who will want to produce something similar and be rewarded with a sweet government contract for it?

"Capitalism", if you guys still want to call it that, coupled with their lobbyists are the reasons government cost on such things is sky high. You know, that "free enterprise" bullshit you guys like to sling around so much as the savior of everything. But, its much easier to just blame the government than the lobbyists greasing the wheels of the rich and corporate giants who look to fleece the taxpayer revenue.

I'm not saying a government is a saint by any means, but I notice a tendency to focus on only one aspect. It isn't government or corporations or socialism or capitalism that is destroying us. It is greed and hoarding. And what do the greedy and the hoarders do to distract us? They give you a scapegoat, whether its a large anonymous entity like "the U.S. Government" or entity unable to form a defense like "the poor", I'm sorry, "the Takers". Yeah, that's the big bogey man in all this, the people with none of the power or money.
Post needs more quotation marks.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:33 PM   #18
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
History laughs at you, as always.

No it laughs at you due to your lack of logic using apples and bananas for a comparison that is hardly relevant and includes your usual strawman arguments. Thus, none of that disproves what I posted. Yet, I notice you keep using it, despite the following being posted to it before:

Eisenhower championed the interstate as part of our defense; actually to be able to move troops quickly. It was inspired by Hitler's highway system. Taxes at that time were high on paper, but due to so many loopholes were rarely paid at those rates. So taxes were lower than now. There was extensive govt cuts in funding after WWII and our govt was not as big and bloated or as involved in any economic central planning--the likes of which you advocate. So your claims for not cutting taxes is inserted into another era when things were different making it illogical.

Lastly, you act as if there would have been no economic growth without an interstate which was not passed primarily for the economy. This is silly and economic ignorance. In fact it was an extension of providing matching funds for state highways, that was interrupted by WWI. Lastly, all revenue bills originate in the House. So stop giving Ike sole credit.

Ike was a bit of a peactime socialist in other areas too. Your post should be titled: "Citizens, you owe your success to the state!"
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #19
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No it laughs at you due to your lack of logic using apples and bananas for a comparison that is hardly relevant and includes your usual strawman arguments. Thus, none of that disproves what I posted. Yet, I notice you keep using it, despite the following being posted to it before:

Eisenhower championed the interstate as part of our defense. Taxes at that time were high on paper, but due to so many loopholes were rarely paid at those rates. So taxes were lower than now. There was extensive govt cuts in funding after WWII and our govt was not as big and bloated or as involved in any economic central planning--the likes of which you advocate. So your claims for not cutting taxes is inserted into another era when things were different making it illogical.

Lastly, you act as if there would have been no economic growth without an interstate which was not passed primarily for the economy. In fact it was an extension of providing matching funds for state highways, that was interrupted by WWI. Lastly, all revenue bills originate in the House. So stop giving Ike sole credit.
No where in that nonsensical rant did you disprove that the government successfully spent money that stimulated the economy.

Your continued belief that all government is bad is absurd and not grounding in any current or past situations of government.

Government is just another entity in the market place that has an interest in a strong economy.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #20
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
No where in that nonsensical rant did you disprove that the government successfully spent money that stimulated the economy.
Your post had no details but just a general assertion that it did. I posted some detail as to why your comparison refers to a different time, with different tax levels, where govt spending isn't anywhere near it is now but in fact followed a period of massive govt cuts. It's not a valid comparison.

I'll bet you just loved all those population upheavals the Interstate resulted in too. You better not ever criticize certain presidents for moving Indians out.

Quote:
Your continued belief that all government is bad is absurd and not grounding in any current or past situations of government.
Strawman. I don't think all govt is bad.

Quote:
Government is just another entity in the market place that has an interest in a strong economy.
It is not an entity in the market place in the way you imply. It's an entity that governs...and our founding was based on a govt that governs less governs best. Govt greases the wheels with sound money, protecting property rights, enforcing contracts, punishing fraud and having some straightforward regulation but not excessive. Today, the infrastructure of the Interstate is actually crumbling thanks to govt management...'er mismanagement of funds.

You expect cradle to grave welfare benefits.You're just another conventional Marxist who thinks the private sector needs too much of it. When there is too much of it, then the private sector remains depressed and economic prosperity dies. There's numerous historical events that prove this...including at our own Plymouth Plantation.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #21
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Obama just lost on the individual mandate delay

These glitches are going to force his hand.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Post needs more quotation marks.
I used asterisks once.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #23
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Both sides spend too much ****ing money.


/thread
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Both sides spend too much ****ing money.


/thread
Well, I agree with that. Each side has its pet projects. Certain Rs want to rule the world. Believe me, someday Rs will be defending ACA.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:00 PM   #25
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Well, I agree with that. Each side has its pet projects. Certain Rs want to rule the world. Believe me, someday Rs will be defending ACA.
That's why I will piss on either side. They scream at each other for committing the same sins.

They are the same.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:08 PM   #26
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So loneiguana, are you saying it was due to govt created jobs at the time the Interstate was built? Many jobs would have eventually ended once it was done. That's not stimulus....that just siphons funds from the private sector creating the same thing.

Or if you mean beyond that then, why hasn't the Interstate prevented the depression we've been in? Yes, it is a depression. Calling it a recession is a euphemism as it's padded over with Fed stimulus using QE and printing money. A LOT of good that's been doing--even with an Interstate system.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
That's why I will piss on either side. They scream at each other for committing the same sins.

They are the same.
No. One side is much worse when it comes to frivolously spending money.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:18 PM   #28
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No. One side is much worse when it comes to frivolously spending money.
Bush's prescription drug bill say hello.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #29
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How many economic bills have the Republicans introduced in the House over the last two years?
I don't know exactly but in case you haven't noticed they've sent up 3 or 4 to the senate in just the past few days.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:28 PM   #30
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Bush's prescription drug bill say hello.
Thanks. When you see him again, ask him how his cousin, the far more costly democrat alternative has been doing. Like I said, one party is much worse. You couldn't have provided a better example. And I'm certainly no supporter of the Bush prescription drug spending.

The only way anyone can even begin to compare Republican spending with democrat spending is if they argue that Republicans (minus the RonPauls) want to spend on a strong, effective military and democrats want to dismantle it so they can use all that money on ever bigger transfer programs.
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