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View Poll Results: Recall Voting For The House And The Senate:
I favor recall legislation by state initiative and popular vote 4 40.00%
I do not favor recall legislation by state initiative and popular vote 1 10.00%
I favor recall legislation by some other means, and I will explain 2 20.00%
I do not favor recall legislation by any means 3 30.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-01-2013, 10:30 PM  
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Recall Voting For The House And Senate

Would you favor establishing procedures for recall by popular vote? I am picturing a system that would allow state legislatures to initiate recall proceedings on members of the House and the Senate, to be voted upon within the respective state.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:56 AM   #16
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I also think a recall for the Senate should be based on corruption charges, or breaking the law. Not policy.

If we were to greenlight recalling Senators because of policy, every single Senator would have to face recall votes, grinding down what little progress we actually get out of that chamber.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Agreed on the House.

I, too, think there should be some sort of methodology for the Senate, but it shouldn't be through state legislatures. Too many of our state legislatures in this country have been gerrymandered to the point where they look nothing like their populations anymore.

Look no further than North Carolina. A state that voted Democratic for their Congress, but the districts were gerrymandered so aggressively they ended up with a Republican supermajority.
Hmmm. 9 out of 13 House members from, 1 of the 2 Senators and the Governor of NC are Republicans.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
May I ask what you're unsure about?

This would actually reduce corruption, which popular vote was promised to do. Now carpetbaggers can move in and run.
I'm not sure that investing that power into a representative legislative body rather than a popular vote would be best for each state. It would make the process more efficient, but then Senators would (in a way) campaign to the legislators rather than the public. Also, I tend to distrust politicians in general and I'd rather the process be as open as possible.

I'm not thinking of the elections to name Senators here-I mean just the act of a recall itself. Provisions could be placed on a recall vote. You could go so extreme as to say that you could only participate in the recall if you voted in the original election even. That could be hashed out from state to state with an eventual norm established. I do think a recall should be initiated in the state legislature though.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Hmmm. 9 out of 13 House members from, 1 of the 2 Senators and the Governor of NC are Republicans.
You were speaking about state legislatures, were you not?
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I also think a recall for the Senate should be based on corruption charges, or breaking the law. Not policy.

If we were to greenlight recalling Senators because of policy, every single Senator would have to face recall votes, grinding down what little progress we actually get out of that chamber.
That is exactly what I want. Senators who know that they can be fired. The controlling mechanism would be that it requires an initiative from state legislature.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You were speaking about state legislatures, were you not?
I was. You were speaking about Congress and it appeared to me that you were suggesting that the Republican supermajorities in NC's state legislature would produce Senators who were out of step with the people of NC based on the current makeup their representation at the federal level. If so, I was correcting your misunderstanding.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I was. You were speaking about Congress and it appeared to me that you were suggesting that the Republican supermajorities in NC's state legislature would produce Senators who were out of step with the people of NC based on the current makeup their representation at the federal level. If so, I was correcting your misunderstanding.
Do you know what gerrymandering is, pat?

Condescending question, I admit. But it was the entire point I was just making, and you are acting like that point was never brought up, or that the concept of gerrymandering is an illusion.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yes, but another Feinswine would be elected as well. The problem there is the people of her area.
There's no guarantee that another or someone worse wouldn't get elected.
I understand that. But it would be a newbie, not an intrenched monster consolidating her power for decades. That's the problem.
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Do you know what gerrymandering is, pat?

Condescending question, I admit. But it was the entire point I was just making, and you are acting like that point was never brought up, or that the concept of gerrymandering is an illusion.
Yes, I do. It's been going on a long time and both parties take advantage of it any time they can.

Whatever the point you were trying to make was, what you said was wrong. Gerrymandering isn't how Republicans took 1 of 2 Senate seats, the Governorship, and NC's Presidential Electors. If the NC legislature elects Republican Senators, they'll be in line with what the majority of their state seems to want.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:21 PM   #25
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I'm not sure that investing that power into a representative legislative body rather than a popular vote would be best for each state. It would make the process more efficient, but then Senators would (in a way) campaign to the legislators rather than the public.
Campaigning to the legislators is campaigning to the public because they elect the legislators. It's just not direct.

Well, there needs to be more to represent each state's interests as an entity. I'm not a big fan of having more and more direct democracy.

I would think a state could make a recall by the legislature a referendum question during an election if need be.

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Also, I tend to distrust politicians in general and I'd rather the process be as open as possible.
That will continue to be a problem as long as we have the big govt, media we have and the education system we have. The only way to
have more control over that is putting more limits on their powers. I guess you're doing that with a recall though. Just remember, if the people are corrupted then we'll still get corrupt politicians winning. As govt grows bigger, the corruption increases too. Because of the kind of people attracted to power.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #26
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I understand that. But it would be a newbie, not an intrenched monster consolidating her power for decades. That's the problem.
I see what you're saying. Obama was a newbie though.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I also think a recall for the Senate should be based on corruption charges, or breaking the law. Not policy.

If we were to greenlight recalling Senators because of policy, every single Senator would have to face recall votes, grinding down what little progress we actually get out of that chamber.
Why, when each body can expel a member of theirs for corruption? There's was even a Senator impeached way back in the day.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:35 PM   #28
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Would you favor establishing procedures for recall by popular vote? I am picturing a system that would allow state legislatures to initiate recall proceedings on members of the House and the Senate, to be voted upon within the respective state.
Sounds good on paper but I could see it creating a perpetual election campaign.

I'd rather go with term limits.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I would think a state could make a recall by the legislature a referendum question during an election if need be.
It was allowed in the Articles of Confederation under Article V:

Summary—Representation in Congress

Each state can decide how it wants to select its delegates, but it must do so once a year, prior to the annual meeting of Congress on the first Monday of November.

States can send between two and seven delegates to Congress. A delegate cannot serve for more than three years in every six-year period. A delegate cannot hold another position in the United States government for which he receives any kind of payment or benefit, either directly or indirectly.

Each state has one vote in Congress, irrespective of how many delegates are sent.

Delegates' freedom of speech is protected while they are serving in Congress. Delegates may not be arrested or put in prison while they are in Congress, or traveling to and from, unless they have committed treason, a felony, or have been guilty of breach of the peace.

http://www.sparknotes.com/history/am...section3.rhtml


...but never added to the Constitution. In fact it was rejected by the Constitutional Congress, and attempts by the states to add it were denied. I don't know how the states could enact a recall provision.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:21 PM   #30
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It was allowed in the Articles of Confederation under Article V:

Summary—Representation in Congress

Each state can decide how it wants to select its delegates, but it must do so once a year, prior to the annual meeting of Congress on the first Monday of November.

States can send between two and seven delegates to Congress. A delegate cannot serve for more than three years in every six-year period. A delegate cannot hold another position in the United States government for which he receives any kind of payment or benefit, either directly or indirectly.

Each state has one vote in Congress, irrespective of how many delegates are sent.

Delegates' freedom of speech is protected while they are serving in Congress. Delegates may not be arrested or put in prison while they are in Congress, or traveling to and from, unless they have committed treason, a felony, or have been guilty of breach of the peace.

http://www.sparknotes.com/history/am...section3.rhtml


...but never added to the Constitution. In fact it was rejected by the Constitutional Congress, and attempts by the states to add it were denied. I don't know how the states could enact a recall provision.
No, I am talking about something different. I was talking about if a Senator was still chosen by their state legislature. Then within each state they could have a referendum about how the people feel about the legislature recalling a senator. That part would be entirely a state matter--not federal.
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