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Old 10-02-2013, 01:11 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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The ObamaCare fight is just beginning

The ObamaCare fight is just beginning


Democrats are affronted that Republicans have made ObamaCare a focus of this fall’s fiscal fights. They should get used to it.

Even if Democrats deflect efforts to defund or delay the law in coming weeks, the fight will go on. Republican opposition is for the long haul, and it should be.

Even as the exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance get up and running, Oba*ma*Care is still in play. It has a legitimacy problem. It had one before it passed, when it was kept afloat through gross special deals, and it has one still, when it is manifestly failing to live up to the president’s salesmanship on its behalf. There’s a reason that usually we don’t pass major social changes lacking popular support on party-line votes — it is a formula for conflict rather than consensus.

Having done the deed, Democrats now expect Republicans to salute smartly, accept “the law of the land” and suggest minor improvements that Democrats will, in their wisdom, decide whether or not to adopt.

In other words, they recommend the acquiescence of surrender.

If this were a consistent principle rather than opportunistic advice, Democrats would have been content to leave “don’t ask, don’t tell” in place and never would have agitated to repeal the Bush tax cuts, out of deference to duly constituted policy and law.

Nearly four years after ObamaCare passed, the coalition against it has expanded, not shrunk. The unions are now excoriating the law in terms that once would have been reserved for Republican floor speeches. In his filibuster, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz repeatedly quoted a letter from Teamsters leader Jim Hoffa attacking ObamaCare as a clear and present threat to the middle class. When House Republicans voted to delay the individual mandate a few weeks ago, 35 Democrats joined them; Joe Manchin, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, announced his support for a delay just last week.

Pew Research has found disapproval of the health-care law at an all-time high in its polling. CNN’s latest survey has disapproval at 57 percent and approval at 38. Health care, a core Democratic strength for decades, is becoming a liability. A New York Times poll found that more people disapprove of President Barack Obama on health care than approve by a 54-to-40 margin. Trust for Republicans and Democrats on health care is about even, according to the Pew poll.

The problems with the health law are invariably described by the president and his allies as “glitches,” or harmless technical snafus that no one should worry about. But the law suffers from basic design flaws beyond the question of whether the Obama administration can get its software to work. It depends on young, healthy people buying insurance even as it reduces their incentive to do so; it encourages employers to dump workers off their current insurance; it suppresses full-time work, through the employer mandate; in 10 years, the law still leaves 30 million people uninsured.

None of this makes for a stable, widely accepted new dispensation in American health care. On the right, ironically enough, it is Cruz and his band of fellow defunders who are the defeatists on the law’s medium-term prospects. They argue that unless it is stopped before Jan. 1, when subsidies begin to flow through the exchanges, it will be an unalterable part of the American landscape.

But at first only about 2 percent of people will receive subsidies, which are funneled through insurers rather than given to individuals directly. The subsidies themselves shouldn’t be enough to save ObamaCare if it is failing.
The law’s fate over the longer term matters because it is almost certain to survive the immediate confrontations over the so-called continued resolution and the debt ceiling. It will be determined over the course of the next two elections, when Republicans will continue to pound away — rightly — over the sighs of annoyed impatience of the left and the media. Resistance is not futile.

http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/the-oba...ust-beginning/
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:14 PM   #2
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Obama’s price of victory (will be failure)

By TODD S. PURDUM | 10/2/13 5:02 AM EDT
Twenty years ago, when he was trying to persuade Bill and Hillary Clinton that universal health care was a politically unrealistic goal, the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan repeated one insistent warning: Sweeping, historic laws don’t pass barely. “They pass 70-to-30,’’ he said, “or they fail.”

Four years ago, when he was trying to persuade Barack Obama that he would pay a terrible price for jamming health care reform through a reluctant Congress on a partisan vote, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel begged his boss to settle for a vastly scaled-down plan.

We now know what happened: Obama’s bill made history — and caused all-out political war. For this president, that’s the price of doing business in a hyperpartisan culture. No one in Washington can really pretend the game is any longer on the level: Over the past few years, the Supreme Court stepped in to settle a presidential election by a 5-4 partisan vote, Obama’s predecessor launched a reckless war in Iraq on specious grounds, and a Republican-led House held the attorney general in contempt for the first time.

But the truth is that Moynihan’s point about the only way to make big changes work seems more than vindicated.

Obama tried — for far longer than most of his liberal allies wanted — to get a bipartisan health care bill. Its centerpiece — an individual mandate to buy insurance — was a Republican idea, first pushed in Congress 20 years ago by Sen. John Chafee of Rhode Island. That meant nothing to the current Republican congressional leadership, which vowed to block Obama’s bill from the start. “If we’re able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo,” said then-Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), now president of The Heritage Foundation. “It will break him.”

Obama might have shown greater legislative or political finesse at any one of several points along the way. But his basic alternative to passing the bill the way he did would have been to accept his lot as another liberal loser and abandon hope for 20 more years.


So the president has fair ground for accusing the House GOP of shutting down the government “over an ideological crusade to deny affordable health insurance to millions of Americans,” as he did on Tuesday. But he could have predicted that his own crusade to bring them coverage would unleash the political whirlwind that is now likely to last for years to come — whatever the merits of his cause. And Republicans are doing their best to make sure no one forgets that he rammed through the health law with Democratic support alone.

“You reap what you sow,” said Whit Ayres, the veteran Republican pollster. “When you force through a major and very significant change to our economy, and you do it on a pure party-line vote, and at the very end change the rules to cram it through, you simply set up a long-term political battle that will never end.”

Robert Blendon, a health policy expert at the Harvard School of Public Health, offered a less partisan but equally pungent analysis. “The long-term future of bills that have absolutely no minority support and are not popular when passed is not good,” he said. “This law is vulnerable not just for this week, but for the 2014 elections, and if not then, for whenever the minority party does become the majority.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...#ixzz2garTBFTj
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:15 PM   #3
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This thing will not last. It's just a matter of time. Republicans just need to hold their ground right now - a message that it appears they are clearly getting.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This thing will not last. It's just a matter of time. Republicans just need to hold their ground right now - a message that it appears they are clearly getting.
The shutdown or Obamacare?
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This thing will not last. It's just a matter of time. Republicans just need to hold their ground right now - a message that it appears they are clearly getting.
Teej has spoken. The republicans will cave next week.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:19 PM   #6
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Already laying the apologies for not being able to continue the shut down....

"Oh, we'll get it next time."

Truth of the matter is this...unless repubs wind up with huge majorities in both chambers and the Presidency in 2016, Obamacare is going nowhere.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #7
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Obamacare is going nowhere.
Meaning it's not going to be implemented or it's here to stay?
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #8
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Meaning it's not going to be implemented or it's here to stay?
It's here to stay unless the conditions I outlined happened.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Already laying the apologies for not being able to continue the shut down....

"Oh, we'll get it next time."

Truth of the matter is this...unless repubs wind up with huge majorities in both chambers and the Presidency in 2016, Obamacare is going nowhere.

Honestly, I think both are about to happen. The Republicans need 6 votes to win the Senate, and they've got 3 of them pretty well on lock down. Picking up another 3 while on offense is hardly insurmountable.

As far as the presidency goes, all I see on the Democrat side right now is Hillary - hardly scary. She was scary years ago, but now she's old, tarnished news.

I kind of wonder if Al Gore crawls out of the woodwork given the weak democrat field.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #10
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Honestly, I think both are about to happen. The Republicans need 6 votes to win the Senate, and they've got 3 of them pretty well on lock down. Picking up another 3 while on offense is hardly insurmountable.

As far as the presidency goes, all I see on the Democrat side right now is Hillary - hardly scary. She was scary years ago, but now she's old, tarnished news.

I kind of wonder if Al Gore crawls out of the woodwork given the weak democrat field.
Repubs will make gains in 2014 imo, but 2016 is way to far in the future to make any predictions. However, the only way Obamacare is going away is for repubs to get a working majority (which means 60 or thereabouts) in the senate and win both the house and Presidency.

It was why I was so opposed to the plan in the beginning. It is damned near incurable once in place.

Six more votes in the senate doesn't prevent filibusters...16 does. And I would bet the farm that the repubs are not picking up 16.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:33 PM   #11
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Repubs will make gains in 2014 imo, but 2016 is way to far in the future to make any predictions. However, the only way Obamacare is going away is for repubs to get a working majority (which means 60 or thereabouts) in the senate and win both the house and Presidency.

It was why I was so opposed to the plan in the beginning. It is damned near incurable once in place.
I agree on predicting 2016... too early. I disagree on Obamacare slightly... I think with a simple majority in the Senate the GOP can effectively neuter Obamacare if they can't outright remove it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:36 PM   #12
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I agree on predicting 2016... too early. I disagree on Obamacare slightly... I think with a simple majority in the Senate the GOP can effectively neuter Obamacare if they can't outright remove it.
Perhaps, but then they would definately have to hold the presidency.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:46 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Already laying the apologies for not being able to continue the shut down....

"Oh, we'll get it next time."

Truth of the matter is this...unless repubs wind up with huge majorities in both chambers and the Presidency in 2016, Obamacare is going nowhere.
I think the tea party knew they wouldn't get it shutdown. I still think this has been a show to distance themselves on obamacate, so when the inevitable mess happens their stance is cast in stone so deep even the msm can't pin it on them.

If I were in their shoes I'd drag my feet one more day, then as a last ditch attempt agree to the car only if congress and staffers exemption is waived and they are forced into t
Obamacare. Make Reid officially oppose that one.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:50 PM   #14
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I think the tea party knew they wouldn't get it shutdown. I still think this has been a show to distance themselves on obamacate, so when the inevitable mess happens their stance is cast in stone so deep even the msm can't pin it on them.

If I were in their shoes I'd drag my feet one more day, then as a last ditch attempt agree to the car only if congress and staffers exemption is waived and they are forced into t
Obamacare. Make Reid officially oppose that one.
They're not exempt.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #15
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They're not exempt.
We could probably argue about them being 'exempt' from an absolute face value of how obamacare affects them so there isn't any point in it.

Let me rephrase to get to the point, add a stipulation to the cr that congress and their staffers be on obamacare exchanges with the same subsidy income levels as the general public.
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