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Old 10-02-2013, 01:11 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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The ObamaCare fight is just beginning

The ObamaCare fight is just beginning


Democrats are affronted that Republicans have made ObamaCare a focus of this fall’s fiscal fights. They should get used to it.

Even if Democrats deflect efforts to defund or delay the law in coming weeks, the fight will go on. Republican opposition is for the long haul, and it should be.

Even as the exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance get up and running, Oba*ma*Care is still in play. It has a legitimacy problem. It had one before it passed, when it was kept afloat through gross special deals, and it has one still, when it is manifestly failing to live up to the president’s salesmanship on its behalf. There’s a reason that usually we don’t pass major social changes lacking popular support on party-line votes — it is a formula for conflict rather than consensus.

Having done the deed, Democrats now expect Republicans to salute smartly, accept “the law of the land” and suggest minor improvements that Democrats will, in their wisdom, decide whether or not to adopt.

In other words, they recommend the acquiescence of surrender.

If this were a consistent principle rather than opportunistic advice, Democrats would have been content to leave “don’t ask, don’t tell” in place and never would have agitated to repeal the Bush tax cuts, out of deference to duly constituted policy and law.

Nearly four years after ObamaCare passed, the coalition against it has expanded, not shrunk. The unions are now excoriating the law in terms that once would have been reserved for Republican floor speeches. In his filibuster, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz repeatedly quoted a letter from Teamsters leader Jim Hoffa attacking ObamaCare as a clear and present threat to the middle class. When House Republicans voted to delay the individual mandate a few weeks ago, 35 Democrats joined them; Joe Manchin, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, announced his support for a delay just last week.

Pew Research has found disapproval of the health-care law at an all-time high in its polling. CNN’s latest survey has disapproval at 57 percent and approval at 38. Health care, a core Democratic strength for decades, is becoming a liability. A New York Times poll found that more people disapprove of President Barack Obama on health care than approve by a 54-to-40 margin. Trust for Republicans and Democrats on health care is about even, according to the Pew poll.

The problems with the health law are invariably described by the president and his allies as “glitches,” or harmless technical snafus that no one should worry about. But the law suffers from basic design flaws beyond the question of whether the Obama administration can get its software to work. It depends on young, healthy people buying insurance even as it reduces their incentive to do so; it encourages employers to dump workers off their current insurance; it suppresses full-time work, through the employer mandate; in 10 years, the law still leaves 30 million people uninsured.

None of this makes for a stable, widely accepted new dispensation in American health care. On the right, ironically enough, it is Cruz and his band of fellow defunders who are the defeatists on the law’s medium-term prospects. They argue that unless it is stopped before Jan. 1, when subsidies begin to flow through the exchanges, it will be an unalterable part of the American landscape.

But at first only about 2 percent of people will receive subsidies, which are funneled through insurers rather than given to individuals directly. The subsidies themselves shouldn’t be enough to save ObamaCare if it is failing.
The law’s fate over the longer term matters because it is almost certain to survive the immediate confrontations over the so-called continued resolution and the debt ceiling. It will be determined over the course of the next two elections, when Republicans will continue to pound away — rightly — over the sighs of annoyed impatience of the left and the media. Resistance is not futile.

http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/the-oba...ust-beginning/
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:58 PM   #31
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Personally I would but most of the GOP has already stated that it would likely remain and the insurance industry would just have to deal with it. I want us out of the insurance racket entirely but whatever, that will likely remain.

And don;t counter with the claptrap about "without the mandate it is unsustainable then!!" It's ****ing unsustainable AS IT IS. Entirely moot point.
Just asking what you thought, no snark intended. At least you are being intellectually honest. The current system is about as inefficient as you can get for the price, in large part I think because of the middle man (insurance) dictating what care is acceptable.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:58 PM   #32
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There is not a chance in hell that it gets repealed. By the time we get to 2016, millions of people who could not get insurance will be insured. The GOP is not going to be able to campaign on taking their health care coverage away. There will be a sob story every hour about soandso from X state who had Y condition and needs their Obamacare to live.

Why do you think the tea party is so freaked out about trying to win a completely unwinnable battle now? They know that as soon as its in place and people are insured, that they will not tolerate any politician trying to get rid of it. Hell, Cruz basically admitted it point-blank a couple weeks ago, he thinks that the people will "become addicted" to Obamacare and then they will never get rid of it.
Obamacare is going to force a lot more people to buy their own insurance instead of receiving it from their employer. Subsidy levels are still pretty limited so the number of people who are going to start feeling a substantial bite out of their wallet is going to go up. I don't know if it will be enough to lead to repeal, but I think Obamacare will continue to be unpopular for quite a while and as a result it's a lot more likely than you think it is.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:02 PM   #33
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Except the GOP doesn't have to "take away" anyone's insurance. They can simply repeal Obamacare. Period. That does not in any way invalidate the insurance a person is buying from a private insurer... even if they bought it through an "exchange." IF they roll back the expansion of Medicaid then maybe you would have something but I doubt they do. They'll simply repeal the mandate. It's not like this magical "Obamacare" law will ACTUALLY give us lower healthcare costs or even lower insurance costs so no one will likely even notice.
The conservative intelligencia had better be imagining an alternative to Obamacare because if they repeal the mandate and then call it a day, the rate of premium increases is more likely to accelerate rather than slow down. They need to come up with something that actually addresses health care cost inflation (which Obamacare doesn't really do).
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #34
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Obamacare is going to force a lot more people to buy their own insurance instead of receiving it from their employer. Subsidy levels are still pretty limited so the number of people who are going to start feeling a substantial bite out of their wallet is going to go up. I don't know if it will be enough to lead to repeal, but I think Obamacare will continue to be unpopular for quite a while and as a result it's a lot more likely than you think it is.
I think that will depend on whether the vouchers these companies have talked about offering their employees actually allow them to shop competitively on the exchanges. I'm not sure why an employer would stop providing a benefit they did before the law without offering an alternative such as a voucher. Unless you believe the whole free market competition theory is just a myth.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:05 PM   #35
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It's going to be repealed. It's just a matter of when.
Not going to happen. Have you forgotten the demographic death spiral the Republican party is in?

Please let me know how the Republican party gets 60 senate seats and the Presidency? How is this possible?
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:06 PM   #36
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Not going to happen. Have you forgotten the demographic death spiral the Republican party is in?

Please let me know how the Republican party gets 60 senate seats and the Presidency? How is this possible?
Yeah, I heard the same thing about a death spiral of the Dems back in 2000.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:07 PM   #37
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What's funny is to watch a Dem senator scream on the floor about the parks being shut down as his leader refuses to pass a bill to open the parks.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #38
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Just asking what you thought, no snark intended. At least you are being intellectually honest. The current system is about as inefficient as you can get for the price, in large part I think because of the middle man (insurance) dictating what care is acceptable.
My BIGGEST issue with Obamacare is that it does nothing to lower health care's ACTUAL cost. In fact it creates market pressures (and medical taxes) to increase costs. It's an absolute abortion... but since it is, at least we'll be covered for that now!
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:09 PM   #39
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I think that will depend on whether the vouchers these companies have talked about offering their employees actually allow them to shop competitively on the exchanges. I'm not sure why an employer would stop providing a benefit they did before the law without offering an alternative such as a voucher. Unless you believe the whole free market competition theory is just a myth.
YES--that is why patteau's statement is wrong. Somehow, these folks are trying to explain how an employer who offered insurance when there was no mandate is suddenly going to stop now that they will be fined. Makes no sense.

The part-timers who did get some insurance through their employers may lose it. And what they'll be able to get through the exchange will be better and cheaper than the shitty limited policy available to part-timers.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:13 PM   #40
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YES--that is why patteau's statement is wrong. Somehow, these folks are trying to explain how an employer who offered insurance when there was no mandate is suddenly going to stop now that they will be fined. Makes no sense.

The part-timers who did get some insurance through their employers may lose it. And what they'll be able to get through the exchange will be better and cheaper than the shitty limited policy available to part-timers.
Doing so well on this post until the GIANT LIE you added. In no mythical realm will it be cheaper or even close to affordable.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #41
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Yeah, I heard the same thing about a death spiral of the Dems back in 2000.
Totally different reasons. Thats was just old school see saw of the political parties rising and falling.

This death spiral is not for those reasons. It's a fundamental shift in the population of the USA.

The Republicans can still get of the death spiral but not without turning around the hispanic vote %'s. The Republicans need to give them a reason to vote "R". Quit insulting them would be a good start.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:19 PM   #42
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My BIGGEST issue with Obamacare is that it does nothing to lower health care's ACTUAL cost. In fact it creates market pressures (and medical taxes) to increase costs. It's an absolute abortion... but since it is, at least we'll be covered for that now!
It seems to me we are on an unsustainable path in the current system. I would certainly agree it is quite likely that revisions to the the new law will be needed.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:20 PM   #43
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Totally different reasons. Thats was just old school see saw of the political parties rising and falling.

This death spiral is not for those reasons. It's a fundamental shift in the population of the USA.

The Republicans can still get of the death spiral but not without turning around the hispanic vote %'s. The Republicans need to give them a reason to vote "R". Quit insulting them would be a good start.
Don't worry, there will be reasons. It will happen eventually. The Dems also thought they would never, ever lose the House too.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #44
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Don't worry, there will be reasons. It will happen eventually.
Hoping that this magical reason appears doesn't seem like a sound political strategy.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #45
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Hoping that this magical reason appears doesn't seem like a sound political strategy.
Yeah, magical. I am just telling you it will happen. The Dems never thought the Repubs would ever get the House and then 1994 hit.
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