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Old 10-02-2013, 01:11 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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The ObamaCare fight is just beginning

The ObamaCare fight is just beginning


Democrats are affronted that Republicans have made ObamaCare a focus of this fall’s fiscal fights. They should get used to it.

Even if Democrats deflect efforts to defund or delay the law in coming weeks, the fight will go on. Republican opposition is for the long haul, and it should be.

Even as the exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance get up and running, Oba*ma*Care is still in play. It has a legitimacy problem. It had one before it passed, when it was kept afloat through gross special deals, and it has one still, when it is manifestly failing to live up to the president’s salesmanship on its behalf. There’s a reason that usually we don’t pass major social changes lacking popular support on party-line votes — it is a formula for conflict rather than consensus.

Having done the deed, Democrats now expect Republicans to salute smartly, accept “the law of the land” and suggest minor improvements that Democrats will, in their wisdom, decide whether or not to adopt.

In other words, they recommend the acquiescence of surrender.

If this were a consistent principle rather than opportunistic advice, Democrats would have been content to leave “don’t ask, don’t tell” in place and never would have agitated to repeal the Bush tax cuts, out of deference to duly constituted policy and law.

Nearly four years after ObamaCare passed, the coalition against it has expanded, not shrunk. The unions are now excoriating the law in terms that once would have been reserved for Republican floor speeches. In his filibuster, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz repeatedly quoted a letter from Teamsters leader Jim Hoffa attacking ObamaCare as a clear and present threat to the middle class. When House Republicans voted to delay the individual mandate a few weeks ago, 35 Democrats joined them; Joe Manchin, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, announced his support for a delay just last week.

Pew Research has found disapproval of the health-care law at an all-time high in its polling. CNN’s latest survey has disapproval at 57 percent and approval at 38. Health care, a core Democratic strength for decades, is becoming a liability. A New York Times poll found that more people disapprove of President Barack Obama on health care than approve by a 54-to-40 margin. Trust for Republicans and Democrats on health care is about even, according to the Pew poll.

The problems with the health law are invariably described by the president and his allies as “glitches,” or harmless technical snafus that no one should worry about. But the law suffers from basic design flaws beyond the question of whether the Obama administration can get its software to work. It depends on young, healthy people buying insurance even as it reduces their incentive to do so; it encourages employers to dump workers off their current insurance; it suppresses full-time work, through the employer mandate; in 10 years, the law still leaves 30 million people uninsured.

None of this makes for a stable, widely accepted new dispensation in American health care. On the right, ironically enough, it is Cruz and his band of fellow defunders who are the defeatists on the law’s medium-term prospects. They argue that unless it is stopped before Jan. 1, when subsidies begin to flow through the exchanges, it will be an unalterable part of the American landscape.

But at first only about 2 percent of people will receive subsidies, which are funneled through insurers rather than given to individuals directly. The subsidies themselves shouldn’t be enough to save ObamaCare if it is failing.
The law’s fate over the longer term matters because it is almost certain to survive the immediate confrontations over the so-called continued resolution and the debt ceiling. It will be determined over the course of the next two elections, when Republicans will continue to pound away — rightly — over the sighs of annoyed impatience of the left and the media. Resistance is not futile.

http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/the-oba...ust-beginning/
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:03 PM   #46
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
The Dems also thought they would never, ever lose the House too.
= no one ever said that
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:05 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
= no one ever said that
yeah, okay...that's why it was such a shocker when the Repubs won it. God damn, dude, just stop.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:57 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
YES--that is why patteau's statement is wrong. Somehow, these folks are trying to explain how an employer who offered insurance when there was no mandate is suddenly going to stop now that they will be fined. Makes no sense.

The part-timers who did get some insurance through their employers may lose it. And what they'll be able to get through the exchange will be better and cheaper than the shitty limited policy available to part-timers.
WOW...that is a whopper of a lie right there. Keep toting the party line though.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
= no one ever said that
I wanna say there is a Tip O'Neil quote out there from years ago that it would be a cold day in hell when there would not be a Democratic Speaker..but I can't find it at the moment.

Considering the shocking reaction that the Democratic Party had when the 94 elections occur though, then I do not think it is too much of a stretch that many, many Dems thought it was unthinkable that they would ever lose the House.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #50
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Totally different reasons. Thats was just old school see saw of the political parties rising and falling.

This death spiral is not for those reasons. It's a fundamental shift in the population of the USA.

The Republicans can still get of the death spiral but not without turning around the hispanic vote %'s. The Republicans need to give them a reason to vote "R". Quit insulting them would be a good start.
That reason is over rated.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #51
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I'm still asking.

What fight is "just getting started," again?

Because this fight's already four years old, amiright?
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:59 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
YES--that is why patteau's statement is wrong. Somehow, these folks are trying to explain how an employer who offered insurance when there was no mandate is suddenly going to stop now that they will be fined. Makes no sense.

The part-timers who did get some insurance through their employers may lose it. And what they'll be able to get through the exchange will be better and cheaper than the shitty limited policy available to part-timers.
Do you have some data on that? I am curious as to how that would work.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:09 AM   #53
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
Do you have some data on that? I am curious as to how that would work.
I do not have data handy.
Employers generally do not offer part-timers health insurance. When they do, it is usually a very limited plan. Employees still have to pay premiums, and they don't get much coverage considering what they pay. Through the exchanges they can get a better plan that costs them less.*

The rare part-timer who has a very high income may not pay less, but they will get better coverage.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I do not have data handy.
Employers generally do not offer part-timers health insurance. When they do, it is usually a very limited plan. Employees still have to pay premiums, and they don't get much coverage considering what they pay. Through the exchanges they can get a better plan that costs them less.*

The rare part-timer who has a very high income may not pay less, but they will get better coverage.
You realize even if you're right, costing them less doesn't mean it costs less.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:28 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I do not have data handy.
Employers generally do not offer part-timers health insurance. When they do, it is usually a very limited plan. Employees still have to pay premiums, and they don't get much coverage considering what they pay. Through the exchanges they can get a better plan that costs them less.*

The rare part-timer who has a very high income may not pay less, but they will get better coverage.
I don't see any reason to believe it would cost less.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:30 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I do not have data handy.
Employers generally do not offer part-timers health insurance. When they do, it is usually a very limited plan. Employees still have to pay premiums, and they don't get much coverage considering what they pay. Through the exchanges they can get a better plan that costs them less.*

The rare part-timer who has a very high income may not pay less, but they will get better coverage.
makes sense...
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm still asking.

What fight is "just getting started," again?

Because this fight's already four years old, amiright?
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm still asking.

What fight is "just getting started," again?

Because this fight's already four years old, amiright?
Rather than argue about when it started, let's just agree that it's not going to end anytime soon.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:39 AM   #59
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm still asking.

What fight is "just getting started," again?

Because this fight's already four years old, amiright?
The fight started then. I think we're in a political cold war now. How serious it is is hard to tell. I'm not sure of Boehner's resolve on this, and whether he's willing to go over the fiscal cliff. I do know that Obama and Reid are going to give him few reasons not to.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:04 PM   #60
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
Right. Doesn't answer my question, though.
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