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Old 10-02-2013, 08:52 PM  
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99 Percent: the Occupy Wall Street Film

99 Percent: The Occupy Wall Street Film

http://movies.yahoo.com/video/99-per...163026967.html


Has anyone viewed this documentary yet? I just caught it on Pivot and it's interesting.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaofred View Post
I just think it's sad, how hard he tries to blame everyone else. I feel it's a major issue with this country and has cause a lot of our issues.

Like I said, I'm paying back loans and I didn't even get my degree. I'm not trying to blame anyone else, I've taken responsibility for my own actions.
So, he's wrong?

He's wrong that a college education is universally encouraged by society?

He's wrong that the job market is much more difficult for a non-college grad?

He's wrong that tuition and, thus, student loans, have skyrocketed for years?

Or are we just unhappy he's mentioned these as drivers of the problem?
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
But at any given tuition level, the cost-benefit analysis for an engineering degree looks a lot better than that for a psychology degree. And for anyone who has to incur debt to fund their education, the prospects of surviving while repaying that debt are much better for the former than for the latter.
I'm not seeing how this is a response to my point.

I'm trying to say that we're saddling college students with too much debt for no reason, and the effect is a radical net negative for the country.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm not seeing how this is a response to my point.

I'm trying to say that we're saddling college students with too much debt for no reason, and the effect is a radical net negative for the country.
Either expect them to make better decisions about when to take loans (preferably with a little help from their parents, the schools, and their guidance counselors) or stop offering them so many easy loans in the first place.

Who is "we" when you say "we're saddling college students with too much debt"? I'm not doing it. Are you talking about the people who advocate for more government money in education?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, he's wrong?

He's wrong that a college education is universally encouraged by society?

He's wrong that the job market is much more difficult for a non-college grad?

He's wrong that tuition and, thus, student loans, have skyrocketed for years?

Or are we just unhappy he's mentioned these as drivers of the problem?
Therefore someone else should pay for their college.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Either expect them to make better decisions about when to take loans (preferably with a little help from their parents, the schools, and their guidance counselors) or stop offering them so many easy loans in the first place.
How about a third path, where the loans are broadly accessible but you don't have to mortgage your goddamn future to pay it back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Who is "we" when you say "we're saddling college students with too much debt"? I'm not doing it. Are you talking about the people who advocate for more government money in education?
Society = "we."

Student loans are needlessly expensive because tuition is needlessly expensive.

There are several effective ways we could remedy this while keeping student financing broadly available as it should be.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:12 PM   #36
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Can't we wait until after we finish nationalizing our healthcare system before we completely nationalize our higher education system?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
How about a third path, where the loans are broadly accessible but you don't have to mortgage your goddamn future to pay it back?
That's a great idea. If only we were in charge of the schools so we could cut back on expenses (teachers, facilities, equipment, etc.) enough to lower tuition levels to a point where the average minimum wage worker could afford to pay back their loans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Society = "we."

Student loans are needlessly expensive because tuition is needlessly expensive.

There are several effective ways we could remedy this while keeping student financing broadly available as it should be.
You've got this backward. First of all, the real "we" are liberals and other socialists who created this problem. Second of all, tuition is expensive because of loans, not the other way around.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Or the government funding that made them possible.
Yep. Which in turn makes the tuition go sky high.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Can't we wait until after we finish nationalizing our healthcare system before we completely nationalize our higher education system?
I'm in big favor of increasing class mobility. I assume you are, too.

Few things increase that like accessible higher education can.

We need to make it more accessible.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzen View Post
Yep. Which in turn makes the tuition go sky high.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm in big favor of increasing class mobility. I assume you are, too.

Few things increase that like accessible higher education can.

We need to make it more accessible.
Higher education can't be more accessible than it is right now. Anyone who wants to go and can cut it academically and socially, can go.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That's a great idea. If only we were in charge of the schools so we could cut back on expenses (teachers, facilities, equipment, etc.) enough to lower tuition levels to a point where the average minimum wage worker could afford to pay back their loans.
Actually it's been a drop in public funding that's been more responsible than anything.

If you want to make college more broadly affordable, and bend the cost curve on tuition, you need to rachet up public funding.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:20 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm in big favor of increasing class mobility. I assume you are, too.

Few things increase that like accessible higher education can.

We need to make it more accessible.
Why don't you start a scholarship fund?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Actually it's been a drop in public funding that's been more responsible than anything.

If you want to make college more broadly affordable, and bend the cost curve on tuition, you need to rachet up public funding.


Sigh. This is the socialists solution for everything.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Higher education can't be more accessible than it is right now. Anyone who wants to go and can cut it academically and socially, can go.
It should be more accessible. Cost is still a barrier for too many students. There are only so many scholarships. For the rest, cost is still a barrier.

It'd be nice if we could increase this accessibility, and not have to worry about the student loan bubble bursting in 10 years.
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