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Old 10-03-2013, 01:22 PM  
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Republicans starting to eat their own over gov't shutdown.

Predictable.

Still a bit surprising that so many Republicans have found themselves hamstrung by the ridiculous rhetoric of Tea Partiers who, as far as I know, aren't even a majority in the party.

I think it really does break down how ridiculously reliant this party is on Fox News and talk radio, because those are the only forces driving this kamikaze mission to shutdown the government to defund Obamacare.

Businesses don't want this strategy, Americans don't want this strategy, independents don't want this strategy, and the market doesn't want this strategy.

The one pocket of resistance behind this entire thing is the Tea Party GOP base, driven by the rhetoric of rightwing media.

Why doesn't the GOP expunge this nonsense and find itself again? Do we really have to wait for President Christie before that happens?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...own-97753.html

Some GOP colleagues angry with Ted Cruz
By MANU RAJU
10/2/13 7:31 PM EDT Updated: 10/3/13 2:45 PM EDT

Ted Cruz faced a barrage of hostile questions Wednesday from angry GOP senators, who lashed the Texas tea party freshman for helping prompt a government shutdown crisis without a strategy to end it.

At a closed-door lunch meeting in the Senate’s Mansfield Room, Republican after Republican pressed Cruz to explain how he would propose to end the bitter budget impasse with Democrats, according to senators who attended the meeting. A defensive Cruz had no clear plan to force an end to the shutdown — or explain how he would defund Obamacare, as he has demanded all along, sources said.

Things got particularly heated when Cruz was asked point-blank if he would renounce attacks waged on GOP senators by the Senate Conservatives Fund, an outside group that has aligned itself closely with the Texas senator.

Cruz’s response: “I will not,” according to an attendee.

The closed-door Wednesday meetings hosted by the Senate’s conservative Steering Committee are supposed to be private, so senators interviewed for this article asked not to be named.

“It seems that there is nothing the media likes to cover more than disagreements among Republicans, and apparently some senators are content to fuel those stories with anonymous quotes,” Cruz told POLITICO. “Regardless, my focus — and, I would hope, the focus of the rest of the conference — is on stopping Harry Reid’s shutdown, ensuring that vital government priorities are funded, and preventing the enormous harms that Obamacare is inflicting on millions of Americans.”

But as the government shutdown heads into day three, a number of Republican senators privately blame the Texas freshman for contributing to the mess their party finds itself in. And now that they’re in it, they say it’s up to Cruz to help find a solution.

“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy – he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” said one senator who attended the meeting. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.”

Over the August recess, Cruz made the rounds with conservative media and held rallies to call on his GOP colleagues to oppose any bill to keep the government running that would also continue funding Obamacare. As he won support on the right and among several dozen House conservatives, Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) agreed to include the Obamacare defunding provision in a bill to keep the government running past Tuesday.

Cruz’s tactics culminated in a controversial 21-hour floor speech, where he derided many of his colleagues for lacking the courage to fight Obamacare. But because of complicated Senate procedures, he was calling on his 45 other GOP colleagues to filibuster the same House bill he endorsed — in order to prevent Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) from later stripping out that language

Including Cruz, just 19 Republicans backed his filibuster attempt, and Reid later killed the Obamacare language with just Democratic votes.

At the Wednesday lunch, Cruz was asked what he would have done had GOP senators united to filibuster the House bill.

“He kept trying to change the subject because he never could answer the question,” the senator said. “It’s pretty evident it’s never been about a strategy – it’s been about him. That’s unfortunate. I think he’s done our country a major disservice. I think he’s done Republicans a major disservice.”

In the run-up to the Tuesday deadline to fund the government, Cruz continued to press the anti-Obamcare fight, lobbying House conservatives to stiffen Boehner’s spine despite the prospects of a government shutdown. The speaker responded with bill after bill taking aim at pieces of the health care law. But Senate Democrats rejected each one up until the final hours of Monday night, prompting the first government shutdown since 1996.

Many Senate Republicans publicly and privately scoffed at the Cruz tactics, arguing that he was making a false and politically damaging promise that he could use the funding bill to gut Obamacare — since the law moved forward anyway on Tuesday despite the government shutdown. They argued President Barack Obama would never agree to gut his signature law. And they took great exception by Cruz and his allies in outside groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund to portray them as weak on Obamcare even though the party has furiously battled the law since the beginning of the president’s term in office.

“The entire effort has been totally disingenuous,” the senator said.

A spokesman for SCF rejected the criticism.

“If these senators had pledged to oppose funding for Obamacare, we wouldn’t have had to run ads against them,” said Executive Director Matt Hoskins. “They only have themselves to blame.”
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Are you seriously asserting there isn't.

Seriously. I'm asking.
No, I'm not. I was pointing out the goofiness of pretending that this was a new issue. When you read a political story you have to ask yourself who the story is benefiting and what direction the author leans in. Off the top of my head this story could benefit the Democrats by portraying the Republicans as divided, or it could benefit the old (neocon) Republicans by helping to cover their asses from fallout regarding the shut down. After a cursory glance I didn't see a substantial lean from Raju in either direction so I assumed the story was published for Republican benefit, because all of the anonymous sources are expected to be Republican. I then dismiss it as bullshit from neocons who are simultaneously distancing themselves from fallout while remaining poised to gain credit for taking a hard line against the Democrats. It's manufactured news unless and until someone has the balls to put their name(s) out there.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, I'm not. I was pointing out the goofiness of pretending that this was a new issue.
It's not a new issue. It's just a new chapter to this shitty novel.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #18
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To summarize listo's responses in this thread.

The OP doesn't make any sense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Wow, so the Republicans blindly handed their party over to Cruz and now they are wringing their hands waiting for him to tell them what to do? That seems so odd. Odd enough to be difficult to believe. Difficult enough to believe that an objective person would have to question the intent of the article.
The OP doesn't have enough credible sources:

Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
In that entire article there are only three names used in reference to the story.

Manu Raju, the author.

Ted Cruz, via a quote, “It seems that there is nothing the media likes to cover more than disagreements among Republicans, and apparently some senators are content to fuel those stories with anonymous quotes. Regardless, my focus — and, I would hope, the focus of the rest of the conference — is on stopping Harry Reid’s shutdown, ensuring that vital government priorities are funded, and preventing the enormous harms that Obamacare is inflicting on millions of Americans.”

Harry Reid, by inference, from the same quote.

It's manufactured news.
The OP is serving a political cause:

Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, I'm not. I was pointing out the goofiness of pretending that this was a new issue. When you read a political story you have to ask yourself who the story is benefiting and what direction the author leans in. Off the top of my head this story could benefit the Democrats by portraying the Republicans as divided, or it could benefit the old (neocon) Republicans by helping to cover their asses from fallout regarding the shut down. After a cursory glance I didn't see a substantial lean from Raju in either direction so I assumed the story was published for Republican benefit, because all of the anonymous sources are expected to be Republican. I then dismiss it as bullshit from neocons who are simultaneously distancing themselves from fallout while remaining poised to gain credit for taking a hard line against the Democrats. It's manufactured news unless and until someone has the balls to put their name(s) out there.
But listo actually agrees that the GOP is facing a deep divide, and that this divide is again erupting over the government shutdown.

So... what was the problem, again?

Is it that the article just didn't describe the problem we both agree exists aptly enough?
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Um yes.
Blindly handing the party to Cruz? What the **** does that even mean?
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
Blindly handing the party to Cruz? What the **** does that even mean?
I think he is suggesting there is a part in the article, somewhere, somehow, that implies this is the case.

I'm sure he'll back that up by quoting the particular part of the piece he's paraphrasing.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:06 PM   #21
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Does anybody ever read Dreckshuns politics threads? I highly doubt it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's not a new issue. It's just a new chapter to this shitty novel.
Well, the R's have to change. A lot of them don't want to because they are still managing to get elected on the same crap they've been pushing for years. I'd like to see them go back to more of a Barry Goldwater conservative philosophy and the noobs are sort of dancing around that way. We'll see.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:11 PM   #23
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I'm just glad we have a strong president that will fix this...
he is on the golf course waiting for his Big insurance kick backs to start rolling in.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Well, the R's have to change. A lot of them don't want to because they are still managing to get elected on the same crap they've been pushing for years. I'd like to see them go back to more of a Barry Goldwater conservative philosophy and the noobs are sort of dancing around that way. We'll see.
One hopes.

I don't think Barry Goldwater is the standard they should strive for, but anything's a step up from the Tea Party garbage.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:13 PM   #25
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he is on the golf course waiting for his Big insurance kick backs to start rolling in.
Well, at least he can't damage the country from there.

Can he?
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So... what was the problem, again?

Is it that the article just didn't describe the problem we both agree exists aptly enough?
The problem with what? Your thread? It's stupid. It's just more partisan bullshit. You actually serve the neocons by posting it but you don't appear to be smart enough to realize that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
Blindly handing the party to Cruz? What the **** does that even mean?
Learn to read.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
The problem with what? Your thread? It's stupid. It's just more partisan bullshit. You actually serve the neocons by posting it but you don't appear to be smart enough to realize that.
Oh I'm definitely not smart, that's not news.

I don't care who I'm serving by putting out accurate information. Information should serve to inform. The politics should follow.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Oh I'm definitely not smart, that's not news.

I don't care who I'm serving by putting out accurate information. Information should serve to inform. The politics should follow.
What information are you putting out?
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:17 PM   #30
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What information are you putting out?
Republicans are cannibals.
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