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Old 10-04-2013, 11:46 AM  
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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***Official St. Louis Cardinals 2013 Postseason Thread***

The Season thread has started crapping out. Post about the Birds here.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:39 PM   #3586
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I guarantee they do. No Cardinal pitching prospect had a better year.
We are going to trade stud pitching to get some offense and a SS. We have no real choice.

Does Jay and or Freese have any value?
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:44 PM   #3587
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Ignorance of the Cardinals hitters? Yes, I have that. Did I not mention that I don't watch much baseball? If not, let me say it again -- I don't watch much baseball. Like none, really. It's a boring sport with long, boring games played during a long, boring season. Wake me when the playoffs start.
Perfect description of the Red Sox bandwagoner here. And there are so, so many of them.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:05 PM   #3588
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We are going to trade stud pitching to get some offense and a SS. We have no real choice.

Does Jay and or Freese have any value?
Jay would have some value. He's usually a 2-3 WAR player, but he's been a horrendous postseason player for three straight years. A guy like Jon Jay is a much better player for a .500 team than he is for a team like the Cardinals.

.188/.263/.218 in the postseason.

Freese, with his age, injury history, and having only one arb year left, would have little value. The Cardinals have two options with Freese: non-tender him or offer him arb and use him as a RH bench bat and platoon player at 3rd and 1st based on pitching matchups.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:08 AM   #3589
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Here's the truth of the matter:

Shelby's stuff is arguably better than Michael Wacha's. Wacha's mental makeup is absolutely fantastic, but Shelby's start against the Rockies was the most dominant start of the entire season. Not Wacha's near no-no, not Lincecum or Bailey's no-hitter.

There is no need to package Miller, and I don't understand the reticence to trade Matt Adams. Matt Adams hits lefties at the exact same level as Jon Jay (79 wRC). The last thing this team needs, especially with Taveras and Wong increasingly gaining PT, is a left handed bat that gets crucified against LHP.

Lynn and Adams brings you a lot of players. Honestly, I would think the Cardinals would be overpaying if they gave up both for Profar. Profar was shit this year. He wasn't given a lot of help by Washington, but he was absolutely awful. He was a negative baserunner, negative defender, and a negative hitter. He was almost half a game below replacement level. Pete Kozma was a better baseball player than Profar last year.

It would gall my ass to trade Miller for Profar.
Profar doesn't excite me either. Looking at his minors stats, I thought he must be a burner, with a cannon arm, that projects to add more power (I haven't seen anything about his game to the point of a "must have"). Certainly not for a solid starter. Both Miller and Lynn have won 15 games as a starter.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:27 AM   #3590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Jay would have some value. He's usually a 2-3 WAR player, but he's been a horrendous postseason player for three straight years. A guy like Jon Jay is a much better player for a .500 team than he is for a team like the Cardinals.

.188/.263/.218 in the postseason.

Freese, with his age, injury history, and having only one arb year left, would have little value. The Cardinals have two options with Freese: non-tender him or offer him arb and use him as a RH bench bat and platoon player at 3rd and 1st based on pitching matchups.
Pretty expensive platoon player
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:58 AM   #3591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Lynn has a tremendous fastball. Every other offering is a below average pitch. And Shelby's H/R splits are troubling, but he is still a 22 year old.

You make a good point regarding innings, but you certainly can't count on Garcia giving you them. I'm fine with them bringing along Martinez via the Wainwright route, but he's just too damned valuable to be a setup man. His stuff is exquisitely rare.
The point I was trying to make about innings is that we cannot afford to part with Miller unless the team would sign a vet who can eat up innings. Lynn, for all his faults, was over 200 innings this year. They may hold Miller under 200 innings again. I'm going to assume that Garcia can't pitch or breaks down again. You have a rotation of Wainwright, Lynn, Miller, Kelly and Wacha. Kelly and Wacha will probably be limited in innings. Even though Kelly is older, he is used to about 100 innings a year and rarely gets into the 7th. If you take out Lynn and replace with Martinez, its another case of a pitcher limited in innings that need to be made up by a spot starter.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #3592
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We need to at least tender the 14 mil. for one year to Beltran. If he takes it not a big deal for one year and offers a better mentor in right for Taveras if they do indeed decide to try him in CF next year. If he declines, we get a pick for losing him after the qualifying offer.

I think Rosenthal and Martinez both will push for a starter position. Motte even if he is healthy will take time to groom back into the late innings so I think one of the two fireballers are likely to stay at the back end. Decent problem to have.

Our biggest need is a right handed stick (if not two) that can make us more successful against LH's. Sub 500 ball makes match ups against teams with that as a strength a real problem. We survived LA because for some reason we had Kershaw's number, but just about every other lefty we couldn't hit if they told us what was coming each pitch.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:31 PM   #3593
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If I was the Cardinals I would kick the tires on a Giancarlo Stanton trade. You would have some decent pieces to move that are MLB ready for the Marlins.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:33 PM   #3594
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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I'm going to float a player out here that I think would be a good fit:

Chris Young. Yes, he strikes out far too much, but he has legitimate pop from the right hand side and has played center at a very high level in the past.

His UZR fell of the cliff last year, but I wonder if some of that is due to the wonkiness of Oakland as a park.

I think he'd be a good fit as platoon CF against LHP (121 +RC career against and an OPS of over .800, although those numbers were down last year), as well as a late innings defensive replacement for Oscar in center.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:34 PM   #3595
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Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry View Post
If I was the Cardinals I would kick the tires on a Giancarlo Stanton trade. You would have some decent pieces to move that are MLB ready for the Marlins.
The Cardinals don't need a RF. They need a shortstop, centerfielder, and third baseman.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #3596
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Originally Posted by VAChief View Post
Profar doesn't excite me either. Looking at his minors stats, I thought he must be a burner, with a cannon arm, that projects to add more power (I haven't seen anything about his game to the point of a "must have"). Certainly not for a solid starter. Both Miller and Lynn have won 15 games as a starter.
What exactly are you looking for?

As a 19 yr old in AA (Well below age) he managed a .452 SLG%, a .368 OBP and a nearly 1-1 BB/K ratio. His 14 HRs are more than respectable for a kid that young at that level.

He's 6'0'' with a broad build; he'll fill out to be about 200 lbs by the time he's in his mid-20s.

He has a very advanced approach, a good build and a great pedigree. I'd be shocked if he didn't end up a 15-20 HR SS with a .300/.375/.450 kinda line as he matures. He may not end up as a GGer, but close. Definitely a plus defender.

If the kid played LF, he wouldn't be amazing. But he doesn't. He plays the thinnest position in baseball right now and one where we have a gaping hole. If you can get solid 5 category production from him, you're well ahead of anyone else.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #3597
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If I was the Cardinals I would kick the tires on a Giancarlo Stanton trade. You would have some decent pieces to move that are MLB ready for the Marlins.
That would be extremely stupid.

Just sayin'
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:07 PM   #3598
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If I was the Cardinals I would kick the tires on a Giancarlo Stanton trade. You would have some decent pieces to move that are MLB ready for the Marlins.
After the Marlins saw how well the Cabrera worked out they're going to ask for the moon.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #3599
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The Cardinals don't need a RF. They need a shortstop, centerfielder, and third baseman.
You guys need a bat. Your home run numbers are down in Royalsland. 3B I think you are screwed on unless you find a sucker for Freese, then slide Carpenter to third. Not much out there on the FA market though. SS open up the wallet for Stephen Drew or Jhonny Peralta. Center field you have Tavares coming up, he is suppose to be able to play center. Jay would be a perfect 4th outfielder IMO.

Now for Stanton, he is a legit 30 plus home run hitter, especially if you throw him between Holliday, Molina, and Craig. If you re-sign Beltran then this all for naught. I think the Marlins would listen to a package of Shelby Miller, Adams, Tyrell Jenkins, throw in another top 10 Cardinal prospect and a PITB. Maybe Wong if they want more.

Carpenter
Craig
Holliday
Stanton
Molina
Tavares
Freese
Drew

That would be a rock solid lineup.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:09 PM   #3600
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You guys need a bat. .
Everyone agrees on that. Besides catcher, right field is our least "need" position.

Cost controlled stud pitching is how we will compete with the $8 BILLION TV contracts of LA. NY etc. You cant just give that up unless its a great need. As Hamas said, CF, SS are those great needs worthy of sacrificing that cost controlled pitching talent.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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