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Old 10-08-2013, 12:34 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Poll: Both sides agree - the other side should back down.

This poll is pretty amusing...
The national survey by the Pew Research Center, conducted Oct. 3-6 among 1,000 adults, finds 44% say Republican leaders should give ground on their demand that any budget deal include cuts or delays to the 2010 health care law. Nearly as many (42%) say it is Obama who should give ground, by agreeing to changes in the health care law.

Even when asked if the only way to end the shutdown soon is for their side to give ground on the health care issue, most are unwilling to back down. A majority of Democrats (58%) say it would be unacceptable for Obama to agree to cuts or delays in the Affordable Care Act, even if this is the only way to resolve the shutdown soon. Roughly the same share of Republicans (54%) say it would be unacceptable for GOP leaders to agree to any deal that does not include cuts or delays to Obamacare.

Notably, Tea Party Republicans overwhelmingly oppose Republican leaders making concessions to resolve the impasse. Nearly nine-in-ten Republicans and Republican leaners who agree with the Tea Party (88%) say Obama should agree to cuts or delays in the health care law and 72% think it would be unacceptable for GOP leaders to agree to a deal that does not include those changes, even if it is the only way to quickly end the shutdown. Among non-Tea Party Republicans, 63% say Obama should agree to changes in the health care law, but only 39% feel it would be unacceptable for GOP leaders to drop their demand for health care changes.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/10/...-care-impasse/
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:53 PM   #16
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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The Republicans do need to articulate a better argument. Boehner is of no help here.
They need to end the beltway-speak of CR etc. Talk to the average person. The Republicans need to make a strong case that Obamacare getting through results in changing the country in a way we've never seen before. Not in a good way. They need to get into why it transforms the country negatively. Instead of focusing on features....they need to market the benefits of it not being funded. Always, push benefits over features. The Ds have an edge here because they can make it sound like it benefits on emotion and some think it's cheap. It's not.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
If I'm the Republicans looking at these polls, I'm taking plenty of heart. These polls show that the strategy is working. They can sit on this until the president capitulates. I don't know what that means anymore. Before it meant delaying the individual mandate for a year. I think that the concessions Boehner is looking for are more substantial than that at this point.
According to the polls, in just a couple short weeks, the GOP has managed to damage themselves so badly that their hold on the House after 2014 is now in danger regardless of the gerrymandering.

That is only going to get worse if this keeps going another couple weeks. If the GOP was rational, they would abandon this idiotic ploy now and try to repair as much of the damage to their brand as possible before the next mid-term. The GOP is going to cave and get absolutely nothing out of this because they are feeling all of the heat.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #18
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Keep reading MSNBC reports & keep telling yourself this.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
According to the polls, in just a couple short weeks, the GOP has managed to damage themselves so badly that their hold on the House after 2014 is now in danger regardless of the gerrymandering.

That is only going to get worse if this keeps going another couple weeks. If the GOP was rational, they would abandon this idiotic ploy now and try to repair as much of the damage to their brand as possible before the next mid-term. The GOP is going to cave and get absolutely nothing out of this because they are feeling all of the heat.
Sorry but this is a RIDICULOUS assertion. This whole debacle hasn't affected voting patterns in the least. The right blame Obama/Reid, the left blame the House GOP and Ted Cruz... the middle blame both sides. Nothing will change unless somehow this magically motivates Dems to actually SHOW UP for a midterm election.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #20
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And so are Republicans. Especially Republicans.
Pfft...typical lib response.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The Republicans do need to articulate a better argument. Boehner is of no help here.
They need to end the beltway-speak of CR etc. Talk to the average person. The Republicans need to make a strong case that Obamacare getting through results in changing the country in a way we've never seen before. Not in a good way. They need to get into why it transforms the country negatively. Instead of focusing on features....they need to market the benefits of it not being funded. Always, push benefits over features. The Ds have an edge here because they can make it sound like it benefits on emotion and some think it's cheap. It's not.
While I agree with everything you said up to this point, even if that doesn't happen the law itself is starting to explain things on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama.

Yet, like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance, they were floored last week when they opened their bills: Their policies were being replaced with pricier plans that conform to all the requirements of the new health care law.

Vinson, of San Jose, will pay $1,800 more a year for an individual policy, while Waschura, of Portola Valley, will cough up almost $10,000 more for insurance for his family of four.

...

"I was laughing at Boehner -- until the mail came today,"

Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.
"I really don't like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family's pocket each year, that's otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy."


Both Vinson and Waschura have adjusted gross incomes greater than four times the federal poverty level -- the cutoff for a tax credit. And while both said they anticipated their rates would go up, they didn't realize they would rise so much.

"Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-wo...osers-bay-area


The republicans are not losing this fight. And they will not lose it unless they cave.
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Sorry but this is a RIDICULOUS assertion. This whole debacle hasn't affected voting patterns in the least. The right blame Obama/Reid, the left blame the House GOP and Ted Cruz... the middle blame both sides. Nothing will change unless somehow this magically motivates Dems to actually SHOW UP for a midterm election.
I actually heard on the radio today that one of the polls, and I thought it was the one in OP but perhaps not, showed independents actually leaning slightly in favor of the republicans right now. I'll have to try and find it.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
I actually heard on the radio today that one of the polls, and I thought it was the one in OP but perhaps not, showed independents actually leaning slightly in favor of the republicans right now. I'll have to try and find it.
There is another important aspect to remember in all this. Saying THE GOP is actually pretty meaningless when it comes right down to the votes. People tend to vote EITHER party line or based on the individual candidates.

I have seen NOTHING to indicate party line GOP voters defecting over this. I HAVE however seen indications that Dem voters may defect over Obamacare. Attacking someone's pocketbook can cause serious issues.

In regards to the people(mostly independents) who vote on each individual, they aren't going to associate each one of them with these issues UNLESS they are a big name player. So you are looking at Reid, Cruz, Boehner... that's mostly it.

I just don;t see anything that convinces me the GOP is going to see any REAL pain from this. Same actually applies to the Dems. BUT the Dems could see some serious backlash in the Senate over Obamacare IF it continues to be the cluster**** we have seen so far. Nonfunctional systems and higher prices...
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
There is another important aspect to remember in all this. Saying THE GOP is actually pretty meaningless when it comes right down to the votes. People tend to vote EITHER party line or based on the individual candidates.

I have seen NOTHING to indicate party line GOP voters defecting over this. I HAVE however seen indications that Dem voters may defect over Obamacare. Attacking someone's pocketbook can cause serious issues.

In regards to the people(mostly independents) who vote on each individual, they aren't going to associate each one of them with these issues UNLESS they are a big name player. So you are looking at Reid, Cruz, Boehner... that's mostly it.

I just don;t see anything that convinces me the GOP is going to see any REAL pain from this. Same actually applies to the Dems. BUT the Dems could see some serious backlash in the Senate over Obamacare IF it continues to be the cluster**** we have seen so far. Nonfunctional systems and higher prices...

I pretty much agree with all of that. I still maintain that the Republicans could be hurt by it BUT, only if they cave. The longer they stick to their guns the better it will be for them in the long run. I firmly believe that.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #25
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I pretty much agree with all of that. I still maintain that the Republicans could be hurt by it BUT, only if they cave. The longer they stick to their guns the better it will be for them in the long run. I firmly believe that.
I agree wholeheartedly. They cave and I could see mass disinterest from their base next election. What's the ****ing point if they won't stand by the principles they were elected on.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #26
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I agree wholeheartedly. They cave and I could see mass disinterest from their base next election. What's the ****ing point if they won't stand by the principles they were elected on.
Which is exactly why they do not win anything on a consistent basis. And when they do win big, it is because of a conservative message that brings the base out in force. The conservative base is notorious for refusing to show up at the polls due to candidates they don't agree with/can't trust. Same will happen here if this goes sideways.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
According to the polls, in just a couple short weeks, the GOP has managed to damage themselves so badly that their hold on the House after 2014 is now in danger regardless of the gerrymandering.

That is only going to get worse if this keeps going another couple weeks. If the GOP was rational, they would abandon this idiotic ploy now and try to repair as much of the damage to their brand as possible before the next mid-term. The GOP is going to cave and get absolutely nothing out of this because they are feeling all of the heat.
No one, and I mean no one I know feels this way. All anecdotal....but most people don't really view this as a Democrat/Republican thing. They view it as an Obama thing. I say "all anecdotal" because I am around people that pay all the different taxes and have jobs.

And a word on public polls: people that answer polls are people that have too much time on their hands.
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