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Old 10-08-2013, 09:22 PM  
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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For those claiming it is the GOP to blame for a possible default...

Explain to me why the DEMOCRATS under Reid refused to pass the Full Faith and Credit Act which was passed by the House. And why Obama threatened to veto it if it got to him?

You all seem to whine and cry that we should ALWAYS pay our debts. Well that law makes certain that in a situation like this... we always do.

You can read it here
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...113hr807rh.pdf

Pretty simple. If we breach our credit limit we (BY LAW) must pay debts first thereby ensuring we NEVER default.

Let's hear your spin on this one.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #2
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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I don't know enough about it to "spin" but you're obviously not giving all the details. It involves some sort of prioritization, correct? So they pay certain debts while defunding programs they don't like to make up for it? Is it something like that? Pretty much what the Rs are trying to do now. Seems like it would just encourage debt ceiling stand-offs.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:33 PM   #3
FD FD is offline
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I don't understand why Obama wants to default. What is he getting out of it?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I don't know enough about it to "spin" but you're obviously not giving all the details. It involves some sort of prioritization, correct? So they pay certain debts while defunding programs they don't like to make up for it? Is it something like that? Pretty much what the Rs are trying to do now. Seems like it would just encourage debt ceiling stand-offs.
Dude, how LAZY can you be. I provided a LINK to the bill. Damn.

Quote:
SEC. 2. PAYMENT OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON PUBLIC
2 DEBT AND SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUNDS.
3 (a) IN GENERAL.—In the event that the debt of the
4 United States Government, as defined in section 3101 of
5 title 31, United States Code, reaches the statutory limit,
6 the Secretary of the Treasury shall, in addition to any other
7 authority provided by law, issue obligations under chapter
8 31 of title 31, United States Code, to pay with legal tender,
9 and solely for the purpose of paying, the principal and in-
10 terest on obligations of the United States described in sub-
11 section (b) after the date of the enactment of this Act.
12 (b) OBLIGATIONS DESCRIBED.—For purposes of this
13 subsection, obligations described in this subsection are obli-
14 gations which are—
15 (1) held by the public, or
16 (2) held by the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance
17 Trust Fund and Disability Insurance Trust Fund.
Those are ALL the damn details. Now explain why Obama and Reid are vehemently against it... IF as you claim, they are so concerned with a true default.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
I don't understand why Obama wants to default. What is he getting out of it?
I don't think anyone thinks he wants to default at all. He (well Reid really) is instead using the THREAT of default to get ALL of what he wants without compromise. "Give me a blank check or we will default!!!!"

Now, please explain to me why Obama and Reid are opposed to a bill that all but assures we will never default? The ONLY reason I can see is because they would RATHER default (or at least threaten it) than budge one inch on spending. Without the THREAT of default on the table they lose leverage to keep raising the debt ceiling to outrageous proportions without having to give up any political capital.

So who are the assholes holding the country hostage now?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:46 PM   #6
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This really should be the nail in the coffin for this debate. How shitty is the GOP that they can't get this message out there. Pretty amazing the incompetence.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I don't think anyone thinks he wants to default at all. He (well Reid really) is instead using the THREAT of default to get ALL of what he wants without compromise. "Give me a blank check or we will default!!!!"
But what is it he actually wants? The House and Senate already agreed on the level of spending. What demand is he making that he needs to make all these default threats?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
But what is it he actually wants? The House and Senate already agreed on the level of spending. What demand is he making that he needs to make all these default threats?
As I said it's really Reid but whatever. THEY are threatening default to "get" a continuation of the status quo. The House wants to STOP the current trend. (or defund Obamacare or delay Obamacare or whatever they want this hour...)

So basically, Obama "wants" a blank check from the House. The House wants to put their conditions on the funding. Obama and Reid SCREAM DEFAULT.

Now, that was a nice dodge but you didn't answer my question which was posed first. WHY if default is such a GENUINE concern would Reid and Obama oppose this bill? The only possible reason I can see is to keep the LEVERAGE of default threats. That goes completely against the rhetoric the left keeps spouting about how negotiating on paying our debts is not ok.

Waiting to hear the spin.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:01 PM   #9
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Dude, how LAZY can you be. I provided a LINK to the bill. Damn.



Those are ALL the damn details. Now explain why Obama and Reid are vehemently against it... IF as you claim, they are so concerned with a true default.
Like I said, it's a backdoor to defunding the stuff they don't like and in the end encourages no agreement on debt ceilings.

If the Rs are really interested in avoiding default by paying debts without regard to the debt ceiling, why not just do away with the debt ceiling?
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:04 PM   #10
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Institutions that do not prioritize debt payments, which this Orwellian-named bill wants to do, have higher credit ratings than institutions that do prioritize debt payments.

This bill is a patch that doesn't fix the problem of debt ceilings, and it makes us weaker in the long run.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:05 PM   #11
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Like I said, it's a backdoor to defunding the stuff they don't like and in the end encourages no agreement on debt ceilings.
Also, that.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Like I said, it's a backdoor to defunding the stuff they don't like and in the end encourages no agreement on debt ceilings.

If the Rs are really interested in avoiding default by paying debts without regard to the debt ceiling, why not just do away with the debt ceiling?
Ah, so your answer is... instead of fiscal responsibility, we can always pay our debts by just borrowing MORE AND MORE! Cuz you know, there's a neverending supply of free moneys and our interest payments will never reach an unsustainable point!

Damn that is about the dumbest shit I have heard from you in a while.

So you have admitted in this post that the reason Obama/Reid won't sign it is so that they can THREATEN default to get their way with spending. BUT BUT I thought we weren't ever supposed to play politics with DEFAULT!!!

You've pretty much ben crushed on this one. Sadly it doesn't matter since the GOP will never effectively get this message out.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
As I said it's really Reid but whatever. THEY are threatening default to "get" a continuation of the status quo. The House wants to STOP the current trend. (or defund Obamacare or delay Obamacare or whatever they want this hour...)

So basically, Obama "wants" a blank check from the House. The House wants to put their conditions on the funding. Obama and Reid SCREAM DEFAULT.

Now, that was a nice dodge but you didn't answer my question which was posed first. WHY if default is such a GENUINE concern would Reid and Obama oppose this bill? The only possible reason I can see is to keep the LEVERAGE of default threats. That goes completely against the rhetoric the left keeps spouting about how negotiating on paying our debts is not ok.

Waiting to hear the spin.
I don't know why they oppose this particular bill. Maybe they have said.

But you say Obama is threatening a default to get a continuation of the status quo. I am sitting here trying to wrap my head around that one but I'm not sure I get it. Why does he need the thread of a cataclysmic default to get something he's already got?

And what do you mean "blank check"? You keep saying it. Congress isn't ceding its authority to set the level of spending, revenue, or debt by raising the debt ceiling, not even close. Both houses of Congress have also agreed on the level of spending, there is no fight over that. I still don't understand why Obama needs to make this threat if he isn't asking for anything.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
we can always pay our debts by just borrowing MORE AND MORE!
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Damn that is about the dumbest shit I have heard from you in a while.
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
BUT BUT I thought we weren't ever supposed to play politics with DEFAULT!!!
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
You've pretty much ben crushed on this one.
Good lord, AC. Tone it the **** down.

This is insufferable.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:09 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
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I don't know why they oppose this particular bill. Maybe they have said.
They've said about as clearly as you could ask for, actually.
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