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Old 10-08-2013, 09:22 PM  
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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For those claiming it is the GOP to blame for a possible default...

Explain to me why the DEMOCRATS under Reid refused to pass the Full Faith and Credit Act which was passed by the House. And why Obama threatened to veto it if it got to him?

You all seem to whine and cry that we should ALWAYS pay our debts. Well that law makes certain that in a situation like this... we always do.

You can read it here
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...113hr807rh.pdf

Pretty simple. If we breach our credit limit we (BY LAW) must pay debts first thereby ensuring we NEVER default.

Let's hear your spin on this one.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:18 AM   #76
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Good lord, AC. Tone it the **** down.

This is insufferable.
That's rich.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:21 AM   #77
Raiderhader Raiderhader is offline
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, but the dumbest shit you hear from me is still smarter than 99% of the posts on here.

Give me a break with putting "playing politics" on the Ds. Congress authorized the spending, now pay the ****ing bill. It's not that complicated, and never was until now.
The bill is going to be paid unless Obama instructs the Treasury not to pay it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:09 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
On this credit card--Who did the spending? YOU
Who authorized the spending? YOU

And when they wouldn't raise your cap, did they also say you weren't allowed to pay your bill for charges you've accrued?

Congress told Obama (and past presidents) to spend the money, now they won't let him pay the bill. Your analogy sucks.
Please detail for me how Congress is blocking the President from authorizing the Treasury to make payments on our debts with the tax revenue that continues to pour into the federal coffers despite the government being "shut down".
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:56 AM   #79
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There are three main problems with this bill:

1) Credit rating agencies will still likely downgrade us, perhaps not as harshly as if we didn't pay treasury bonds, but still a downgrade if we do not pay our other outstanding bills. This is like a homeowner saying, "I will fix my credit rating by not paying my utility bills and paying my car loan". It may save the car, but there will still be negative items on your FICO score added from the utility company. Regardless of that analogy, it will be the perception, that we cannot be relied upon to pay our bills due in a timely fashion.

2) With the government shut down, it it not clear if there are staff sufficient to administer this prioritization of payments.

3)At BEST, this only delays default on our bonds and doesn't solve the problem. Even if we stopped all government spending except debt payments, we would still default. This is because the cost of borrowing money is not free. The new bonds we have to take out will eventually take out the debt ceiling because of the interest owed on them. The debt ceiling will have to be raised to account for interest payments on the debt.

So we save a couple of weeks, or months, then what? What did we gain by this process? Why not just address the problem now?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:04 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
There are three main problems with this bill:

2) With the government shut down, it it not clear if there are staff sufficient to administer this prioritization of payments.
This doesn't seem to be a real problem. We seem to be able to keep government workers working when we really want to despite the "shutdown".
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:28 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
There are three main problems with this bill:

1) Credit rating agencies will still likely downgrade us, perhaps not as harshly as if we didn't pay treasury bonds, but still a downgrade if we do not pay our other outstanding bills. This is like a homeowner saying, "I will fix my credit rating by not paying my utility bills and paying my car loan". It may save the car, but there will still be negative items on your FICO score added from the utility company. Regardless of that analogy, it will be the perception, that we cannot be relied upon to pay our bills due in a timely fashion.

2) With the government shut down, it it not clear if there are staff sufficient to administer this prioritization of payments.

3)At BEST, this only delays default on our bonds and doesn't solve the problem. Even if we stopped all government spending except debt payments, we would still default. This is because the cost of borrowing money is not free. The new bonds we have to take out will eventually take out the debt ceiling because of the interest owed on them. The debt ceiling will have to be raised to account for interest payments on the debt.

So we save a couple of weeks, or months, then what? What did we gain by this process? Why not just address the problem now?
There is almost NOTHING accurate in your post. Seriously. I'll be back at my desk later to address specifics but man you are way off base on how our credit rating works AND your budget math is so far off I hesitate to ask where you pulled it from.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #82
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
3)At BEST, this only delays default on our bonds and doesn't solve the problem. Even if we stopped all government spending except debt payments, we would still default. This is because the cost of borrowing money is not free. The new bonds we have to take out will eventually take out the debt ceiling because of the interest owed on them. The debt ceiling will have to be raised to account for interest payments on the debt.
Dumbasses--read this again. And again. I've said it several times and now someone else is saying it. No matter how many times it is explained to you, most of you keep coming back with--we've got to stop this spending!

Sometimes, like TJ in this thread, you acknowledge and agree that the debt ceiling has to do with already-accrued debt and not new spending, but then you go right back arguing how we shouldn't raise the ceiling because we can't afford new spending. Read it again. Let it sink in. And stop the dumb credit card analogies unless it includes not paying your cc bill when you receive it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:40 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Dumbasses--read this again. And again. I've said it several times and now someone else is saying it. No matter how many times it is explained to you, most of you keep coming back with--we've got to stop this spending!

Sometimes, like TJ in this thread, you acknowledge and agree that the debt ceiling has to do with already-accrued debt and not new spending, but then you go right back arguing how we shouldn't raise the ceiling because we can't afford new spending. Read it again. Let it sink in. And stop the dumb credit card analogies unless it includes not paying your cc bill when you receive it.
This isn't a fight over paying off debt, it's a fight about incurring more debt. It may be inevitable that we have to incur more debt to pay off previously authorized spending in the end, but now is a great time to talk about getting that spending under control in the future. Obviously, democrats want no part of that discussion.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This isn't a fight over paying off debt, it's a fight about incurring more debt. It may be inevitable that we have to incur more debt to pay off previously authorized spending in the end, but now is a great time to talk about getting that spending under control in the future. Obviously, democrats want no part of that discussion.
I don't see why this is that hard to understand. Especially considering the awful history of trusting congress to address spending.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:47 AM   #85
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This isn't a fight over paying off debt, it's a fight about incurring more debt. It may be inevitable that we have to incur more debt to pay off previously authorized spending in the end, but now is a great time to talk about getting that spending under control in the future. Obviously, democrats want no part of that discussion.
Yes, that's the problem--it has become a fight over incurring more debt. That's a fine discussion to have, but paying the bills shouldn't be held hostage as part of the "discussion."
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:49 AM   #86
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hate machine working good, dems want a lil bump. it's working.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:57 AM   #87
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hate machine working good, dems want a lil bump. it's working.
Yeah, I can't recall a more divisive administration...
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:07 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yes, that's the problem--it has become a fight over incurring more debt. That's a fine discussion to have, but paying the bills shouldn't be held hostage as part of the "discussion."
No, that's not a problem. What democrats want is to avoid any reason to have that discussion.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:12 AM   #89
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Watching AC have a brain aneurism trying to defend the irresponsible Rs is no way to get your entertainment.
Irresponsible is to keep spending more than you make.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:30 AM   #90
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There is almost NOTHING accurate in your post. Seriously. I'll be back at my desk later to address specifics but man you are way off base on how our credit rating works AND your budget math is so far off I hesitate to ask where you pulled it from.
Only speaking on default here as I haven't had a chance to really look at that proposed bill.

From what I've seen about it so far in this thread, it would more than likely have a negative effect on our credit rating. Once you start prioritizing payments over others, it sends a negative signal to creditors. Just because you aren't reducing their priority now doesn't mean that it won't happen in the future. The ratings agencies rate the debt on the ability to pay as well as the outlook for the ability to pay (with an element of willingness to pay). Creating a slotting scheme for our obligations definitely sends a negative signal for the future outlook on the ability or willingness to pay. Their ratings are not just quantitatively based.

Second, a default does not require you to stop paying your debts. If you announce intentions to pay less than what you owe or alter the terms on what you owe, that can be considered default. That would also severely affect our credit rating.

All of that being said, the ratings agencies should have zero credibility. Their business models are one giant conflict of interest and they have terrible track records.
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