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Old 10-10-2013, 04:32 PM  
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Obama Buys Debt Ceiling Debacle - Rejects GOP Offer

Obama Rejects G.O.P. Offer of Short-Term Debt Limit Plan

By JACKIE CALMES and ASHLEY PARKER

At a meeting at the White House, President Obama turned down the proposal from Republicans to extend the nationís borrowing authority for six weeks because it would not also reopen the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us...debate.html?hp
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
First president to have a Congress make such insane demands in order to get permission to pay the bills for spending that Congress authorized.
I'm convinced, your from another planet.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by thecoffeeguy View Post
I'm convinced, your from another planet.
Sounds about right. You guys are often obsessed with aliens and conspiracy nonsense.

You nuts also never like to actually try to refute anything. If you think of anything, let me know.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:06 AM   #33
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Easily the worst President of my lifetime and possibly ever. He thinks he's a dictator and is dividing this country to a point that it hasn't been since the Civil War.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:39 AM   #34
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Easily the worst President of my lifetime and possibly ever. He thinks he's a dictator and is dividing this country to a point that it hasn't been since the Civil War.
So, what exactly has he dictated?
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
So, what exactly has he dictated?
Refusing to negotiate with Congress.
Essentially making law by chaging obamacare without congress' approval (actually against the law)

Few examples.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:04 AM   #36
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Yep, and that is (in part) the root of the problem.

So Fox News and Drudge and Limbaugh and all the other right wing sources of news are also "(in part) the root of the problem?"
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #37
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Odd that Republicans on here seem to think they're winning somehow.

Or that Obama is the anti-christ for not caving in to Republican demands to crater his signature achievement.


Anyway, I will say one thing -- if Republicans can get anyone to sit down and talk with them regarding runaway deficits and the looming entitlement collapse, then all this will have been worth it.

But since Republicans dont' actually want to meet Obama halfway on those items, I don't see any actual progress being made on those critical topics.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:12 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
Refusing to negotiate with Congress.
Essentially making law by chaging obamacare without congress' approval (actually against the law)

Few examples.

You must be very, very young.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:22 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Odd that Republicans on here seem to think they're winning somehow.

Or that Obama is the anti-christ for not caving in to Republican demands to crater his signature achievement.


Anyway, I will say one thing -- if Republicans can get anyone to sit down and talk with them regarding runaway deficits and the looming entitlement collapse, then all this will have been worth it.

But since Republicans dont' actually want to meet Obama halfway on those items, I don't see any actual progress being made on those critical topics.

What is strangely odd is that anyone thinks anyone...individual, party, or country, won anything. Governing has become a gameshow with no rules.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:22 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Odd that Republicans seem to think they're winning somehow.


Anyway, I will say one thing -- if Republicans can get anyone to sit down and talk with them regarding runaway deficits and the looming entitlement collapse, then all this will have been worth it.

But since Republicans dont' actually want to meet Obama halfway on those items, I don't see any actual progress being made on those critical topics.
Republicans already caved in tax increases for the wealthy and you point your finger at them for being the obstacle for deficit and debt reduction? Good lord.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:46 AM   #41
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Republicans already caved in tax increases for the wealthy and you point your finger at them for being the obstacle for deficit and debt reduction? Good lord.

errr...no I don't. See post I just made in the other thread. The "halfway" involves at least SOME degree of tax increases. IIRC, the "grand bargain" that Obama/Boehner tried to reach was like 4:1 spending cuts to revenue increases -- something to give Democrats at least a carrot to show that they are also dealing with increasing income disparity in America, etc., but Boehner couldn't even get his caucus to back that. Republicans can't get budget/debt reform solely on their terms, but they seem unwilling (or perhaps unable, due ot their splintered mess of a caucus) to be able to give anything.

It's nuking America for a one year delay in Obamacare that annoys me. If it was SOLELY about our looming entitlements crisis, I'd applaud them for trying to force the issue. Heck, I still will if that's the result they get, though their strategy seems odd/poor to achieve that result.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
errr...no I don't. See post I just made in the other thread. The "halfway" involves at least SOME degree of tax increases. IIRC, the "grand bargain" that Obama/Boehner tried to reach was like 4:1 spending cuts to revenue increases -- something to give Democrats at least a carrot to show that they are also dealing with increasing income disparity in America, etc., but Boehner couldn't even get his caucus to back that. Republicans can't get budget/debt reform solely on their terms, but they seem unwilling (or perhaps unable, due ot their splintered mess of a caucus) to be able to give anything.

It's nuking America for a one year delay in Obamacare that annoys me. If it was SOLELY about our looming entitlements crisis, I'd applaud them for trying to force the issue. Heck, I still will if that's the result they get, though their strategy seems odd/poor to achieve that result.


More important neither side will make a cut in spending that occurs as long as they assume they will be in office. Its always hollow words and cuts in projections 10 years out because these people have interest on either side of actually cutting anything except deals for themselves.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:30 AM   #43
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...afford/280500/
"Tea Partiers should nevertheless understand that, fairly or unfairly, they're saddled with a reputation for unusual recklessness. Voters aren't sure whether they can be trusted to govern. That's why their behavior in the debt ceiling standoff is so idiotic. Senator Paul and Congressman Amash, whose principled stands I frequently cheer, and Senator Ted Cruz, whose phony affect makes me mistrust him, could demonstrate themselves to be staunch fiscal conservatives and fight for small government in any number of ways. They could embark upon any number of long term strategies for reforming public policy in line with their beliefs. Among all the fights they could conceivable pick, why choose the debt-ceiling?

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

A refusal to raise the debt ceiling isn't a conscientious stand on a matter of principle, like religious liberty or due process or preventing the deaths of innocents. This particular stand will do nothing to solve America's fiscal problems, or to persuade the public that small government solutions are to be preferred. The very best scenario, if you're a fiscal conservative, is for the debt ceiling to be raised after President Obama concedes some significant decrease in spending, an extremely unlikely outcome; and if the debt ceiling isn't raised, the threat of which is the only Tea Party leverage, significant harm to the country's fiscal standing could result, putting the United States even deeper in the hole.

For all those reasons, picking this particular fight plays into every negative Tea Party stereotype. It makes Tea Party legislators seem like reckless ideologues who operate inside an information bubble, not principled men with pragmatic governing styles. It's one thing to be intransigent on matters of great consequence that implicate core beliefs or will forever change the trajectory of the nation. It is quite another thing to be intransigent on a matter that would be of little consequence if you hadn't yourself chosen it for a high-risk, low-reward fight. One begins to suspect that this isn't about better governance at all.

The downside possibilities of the government shutdown are less dire, but it too plays into the narrative of Republicans unable to deliver pragmatic governance, a lesson you'd have thought that the GOP would have learned during the last shutdown.
"
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:38 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
More important neither side will make a cut in spending that occurs as long as they assume they will be in office. Its always hollow words and cuts in projections 10 years out because these people have interest on either side of actually cutting anything except deals for themselves.
I tend to agree with this but I believe there is sincere people on the right like Paul Ryan that would like to reform entitlements. I just don't necessarily agree with them on how they want to do it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:38 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by |Zach| View Post
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...afford/280500/
"Tea Partiers should nevertheless understand that, fairly or unfairly, they're saddled with a reputation for unusual recklessness. Voters aren't sure whether they can be trusted to govern. That's why their behavior in the debt ceiling standoff is so idiotic. Senator Paul and Congressman Amash, whose principled stands I frequently cheer, and Senator Ted Cruz, whose phony affect makes me mistrust him, could demonstrate themselves to be staunch fiscal conservatives and fight for small government in any number of ways. They could embark upon any number of long term strategies for reforming public policy in line with their beliefs. Among all the fights they could conceivable pick, why choose the debt-ceiling?

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

A refusal to raise the debt ceiling isn't a conscientious stand on a matter of principle, like religious liberty or due process or preventing the deaths of innocents. This particular stand will do nothing to solve America's fiscal problems, or to persuade the public that small government solutions are to be preferred. The very best scenario, if you're a fiscal conservative, is for the debt ceiling to be raised after President Obama concedes some significant decrease in spending, an extremely unlikely outcome; and if the debt ceiling isn't raised, the threat of which is the only Tea Party leverage, significant harm to the country's fiscal standing could result, putting the United States even deeper in the hole.

For all those reasons, picking this particular fight plays into every negative Tea Party stereotype. It makes Tea Party legislators seem like reckless ideologues who operate inside an information bubble, not principled men with pragmatic governing styles. It's one thing to be intransigent on matters of great consequence that implicate core beliefs or will forever change the trajectory of the nation. It is quite another thing to be intransigent on a matter that would be of little consequence if you hadn't yourself chosen it for a high-risk, low-reward fight. One begins to suspect that this isn't about better governance at all.

The downside possibilities of the government shutdown are less dire, but it too plays into the narrative of Republicans unable to deliver pragmatic governance, a lesson you'd have thought that the GOP would have learned during the last shutdown.
"
My question is why wouldn't obama agree to spending cuts?
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