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Old 10-10-2013, 05:32 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Obama Buys Debt Ceiling Debacle - Rejects GOP Offer

Obama Rejects G.O.P. Offer of Short-Term Debt Limit Plan

By JACKIE CALMES and ASHLEY PARKER

At a meeting at the White House, President Obama turned down the proposal from Republicans to extend the nationís borrowing authority for six weeks because it would not also reopen the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us...debate.html?hp
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:41 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Same basic principle as before. You don't negotiate with someone holding the country for ransom. Either we get what we want or no government, no paying our financial obligations. Give a mouse a cookie........
That's more of a political tactic than a principal.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Same basic principle as before. You don't negotiate with someone holding the country for ransom. Either we get what we want or no government, no paying our financial obligations. Give a mouse a cookie........
...said the person supporting the federal program that turns everyone into insurance hostages.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:25 PM   #63
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...said the person supporting the federal program that turns everyone into insurance hostages.
I want single payer. Medicare for all type of system. People are happy with medicare. Why not give everyone a chance at that insurance that the vast majority are happy with?
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:37 PM   #64
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I want single payer. Medicare for all type of system. People are happy with medicare. Why not give everyone a chance at that insurance that the vast majority are happy with?
Because they're only happy as long as the costs of Medicare patients can be shifted to other paying patients. When that gravy train ends, so does "happy with Medicare".
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:30 PM   #65
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I'd like the government to pay for my preventative healthcare hot tub. Do I get that if I do the adult thing and vote for a democrat?
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:49 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Because they're only happy as long as the costs of Medicare patients can be shifted to other paying patients. When that gravy train ends, so does "happy with Medicare".
Are you saying medicare pays less than private insurance and keeps costs down? Well that can't be right.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:50 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Are you saying medicare pays less than private insurance and keeps costs down? Well that can't be right.
Wow. Just wow.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #68
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Solid well-thought our rebuttal as always. There's probably no point trying to explain this to you but I will give it a go.

He just made a point that "paying" customers subsidize Medicare customers. Which implies Medicare pays less than private insurance. This is not in disupute, Medicare does almost pay hospitals and doctors less for the same procedure than private or corporate insurance. http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2009/0...pay-hospitals/

Medicare sets prices, private insurance tries to negotiate as close as they can to that (which they do to varying degrees of success depending on their size, regional presence, etc.) The govt in this case is the only throttle on healthcare costs in this country. Other countries with single payer pay about half what we do for healthcare.

I realize this is counter-intuitive to everything you believe, but it's not really a disputed fact. It has to do with leverage and economies of scale. The same concept Wal-mart uses to hammer suppliers down to giving them painfully low prices.

Furthermore doctors can refuse Medicare patients at any time. But they still take them. Why? Because they still make money. Just not as much. I'm sure patty has some silly other reason for this, like doctors take Medicare patients as loss-leaders or something. Eagerly awaiting that rabbit hole.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:02 PM   #69
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Many of the other countries that pay half of what we do, also have better overall lifestyles than we do.

We have fast food and TV culture. Both our redneck and inner city populations adhere to it.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:03 PM   #70
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Our country is in an irreversible decline.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
Many of the other countries that pay half of what we do, also have better overall lifestyles than we do.

We have fast food and TV culture. Both our redneck and inner city populations adhere to it.
That's a red herring. Obesity has nothing to do with why a hip replacement costs around $15k in Europe and $100k in the US. Or an MRI costs $99 in Japan and $1500 in the US.

They've done studies that factor in our obesity rates and we still pay more.

Our current system is about the most FUBAR one you can imagine for keeping costs down. Hospitals have all the leverage. They keep their pricing as opaque and complicated as possible and can negotiate with private insurers piecemeal. For a private insurer not being in-netowrk in a prominent local hospital network can be a death sentence.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:10 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
That's a red herring. Obesity has nothing to do with why a hip replacement costs around $15k in Europe and $100k in the US. Or an MRI costs $99 in Japan and $1500 in the US.

They've done studies that factor in our obesity rates and we still pay more.

Our current system is about the most FUBAR one you can imagine for keeping costs down. Hospitals have all the leverage. They keep their pricing as opaque and complicated as possible and can negotiate with private insurers piecemeal. For a private insurer not being in-netowrk in a prominent local hospital network can be a death sentence.
I'm not defending any type of healthcare system. I'm saying our population doesn't take of themselves and in fact, does everything they can to sabotage their own health.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:18 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Solid well-thought our rebuttal as always. There's probably no point trying to explain this to you but I will give it a go.

He just made a point that "paying" customers subsidize Medicare customers. Which implies Medicare pays less than private insurance. This is not in disupute, Medicare does almost pay hospitals and doctors less for the same procedure than private or corporate insurance. http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2009/0...pay-hospitals/

Medicare sets prices, private insurance tries to negotiate as close as they can to that (which they do to varying degrees of success depending on their size, regional presence, etc.) The govt in this case is the only throttle on healthcare costs in this country. Other countries with single payer pay about half what we do for healthcare.

I realize this is counter-intuitive to everything you believe, but it's not really a disputed fact. It has to do with leverage and economies of scale. The same concept Wal-mart uses to hammer suppliers down to giving them painfully low prices.

Furthermore doctors can refuse Medicare patients at any time. But they still take them. Why? Because they still make money. Just not as much. I'm sure patty has some silly other reason for this, like doctors take Medicare patients as loss-leaders or something. Eagerly awaiting that rabbit hole.
Doctors and hospitals only agree to negotiated Medicare prices because insurance companies make up the difference. Once that's gone the only thing that will happen is reduced care.

Obamacare has already implemented a dagger to Medicare patients. Because of it hospitals are penalized for repeat patients. That's a fact. Look it up.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:51 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Doctors and hospitals only agree to negotiated Medicare prices because insurance companies make up the difference. Once that's gone the only thing that will happen is reduced care.

Obamacare has already implemented a dagger to Medicare patients. Because of it hospitals are penalized for repeat patients. That's a fact. Look it up.
there might be some qualifiers to that, but it's actually true...

surprising since hospitals reportedly had lots of input in drafting obamacare...
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:15 PM   #75
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there might be some qualifiers to that, but it's actually true...

surprising since hospitals reportedly had lots of input in drafting obamacare...
I don't know dude, reality is going to set in and nobody seems to care. We are about to lose the health care the rest of the world only wishes they had.
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