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Old 10-10-2013, 04:32 PM  
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Obama Buys Debt Ceiling Debacle - Rejects GOP Offer

Obama Rejects G.O.P. Offer of Short-Term Debt Limit Plan

By JACKIE CALMES and ASHLEY PARKER

At a meeting at the White House, President Obama turned down the proposal from Republicans to extend the nationís borrowing authority for six weeks because it would not also reopen the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us...debate.html?hp
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:46 PM   #76
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It's simple all the Republicans have to do is give the President 100% of everything he wants so that there will be nothing left to negotiate. Nothing at all unreasonable about any of that.
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:37 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Doctors and hospitals only agree to negotiated Medicare prices because insurance companies make up the difference. Once that's gone the only thing that will happen is reduced care.

Obamacare has already implemented a dagger to Medicare patients. Because of it hospitals are penalized for repeat patients. That's a fact. Look it up.
Then why do they still bother serving Medicare patients? There's no law that says they have to. Why not open a hospital that only serves private insurance patients and rake in the big bucks?

Some hospitals get like 80% of their revenue from Medicare patients. You really think they're losing money on all those patients?

The last line make zero sense and is probably just one of those "death panel" lies your media bubble uses to scary you. Look what up? Do you have any kind of cite that isn't a ranty blog and/or doesn't end in infowars.com?

Last edited by suzzer99; 10-12-2013 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:39 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by greg63 View Post
It's simple all the Republicans have to do is give the President 100% of everything he wants so that there will be nothing left to negotiate. Nothing at all unreasonable about any of that.
You people are seriously delusional. You really should try stepping outside the conservative media bubble for a little while. Just a week maybe.

Most negotiations start with "you have something I want, I have something you want". The only kind of negotiation that starts with "I am going to do something very bad if you don't do what I want" is a hostage negotiation. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...ge-negotiation. You also don't pick something you know the other side is never going to cave on in a million years. That's just grandstanding (although I guess it works toward their main goal of not getting primaried).

The ACA was passed, made into law, upheld by the Supreme Court, and the guy who ran for president on repealing it lost. But now 30 or so hard line evangelical tea party nutjobs who think the end of days is right around the corner anyway want to delay Obamacare for a year or they shut down the government. And because Obama won't go along with that he's not "negotiating"?

Fortunately at least according the poll numbers even moderate republicans and low-information independents who rarely think about politics don't see it that way. You may or may not be aware of this depending on how deep in the bubble you are, but republicans are kinda panicking right now and just trying to get out of this saving some kind of face.

Last edited by suzzer99; 10-13-2013 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:41 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I don't know dude, reality is going to set in and nobody seems to care. We are about to lose the health care the rest of the world only wishes they had.
I love how you guys fret about Obamacare hurting Medicare then, turn around in practically the same breath and blast "socialized medicine". Do you know what cognitive dissonance means?



I guarantee you no developed nation wishes they had our health care system. That may be the dumbest thing said in this thread. Yeah some rich people like to go to the Mayo clinic. Maybe you have good health coverage that you're happy with and don't care about others. That's great, but the fact is the health care system in the richest nation on earth screws over more of its citizens than like the next 50 richest countries behind us.

No where else in the developed world do people have to worry about pre-existing conditions. No where else do people go bankrupt over healthcare. Nowhere else do they make people wait to go to emergency rooms for treatment, then still spread the cost around in the most inefficient manner when people stiff the bill. Nowhere else do you pay 10 times reasonable price for standard procedures that the rest of the world has figured out how to deliver much cheaper.

Our system of delivering healthcare is the worst cluster**** you could possibly design. Hell conservatives complained about it all the time until about 2008 when it suddenly became the greatest healthcare system God ever gave man on the face of the earth. Our FUBAR healthcare system the whole reason they proposed mandates as a counter-proposal to Hillarycare and implemented it as Romneycare. Before they got hijacked by the batshit-crazy wing.

The whole thing is ****ing surreal.

Republicans avoided single payer (like your beloved Medicare), public option, and basically got everything they wanted in Obamacare (minus the name). So naturally they haven't stopped throwing a temper tantrum about it ever since. What a prize for them. They get everything they wanted and get to blame the other guy if it goes wrong.

Of course what they're really afraid of, and I think the smart ones know, is that it won't ultimately go wrong. Just like Medicare, SS etc. - sure there will be some glitches, which republicans will be blasting out of their media empire for the next decade. But ultimately Obamacare is going to improve a lot of real people's lives - working poor, waiters, entrepreneurs, independent contractors, etc. Some of whom even vote republican - and may now think twice.

Of course if republicans end up getting drubbed over this the die-hards like you will just blame the moocher class and double down on the crazy. That's much less painful than any kind of self-reflection.

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Old 10-12-2013, 11:51 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I love how you guys fret about Obamacare hurting Medicare then, turn around in practically the same breath and blast "socialized medicine". Do you know what cognitive dissonance means?


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Old 10-13-2013, 12:17 AM   #81
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Also nice when paired with the popular "Government screws up everything it touches!"
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Old 10-13-2013, 02:19 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You people are seriously delusional. You really should try stepping outside the conservative media bubble for a little while. Just a week maybe.

Most negotiations start with "you have something I want, I have something you want". The only kind of negotiation that starts with "I am going to do something very bad if you don't do what I want" is a hostage negotiation. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...ge-negotiation. You also don't pick something you know the other side is never going to cave on in a million years. That's just grandstanding (although I guess it works toward their main goal of not getting primaried).

The ACA was passed, made into law, upheld by the Supreme Court, and the guy who ran for president on repealing it lost. But now 30 or so hard line evangelical tea party nutjobs who think the end of days is right around the corner anyway want to delay Obamacare for a year or they shut down the government. And because Obama won't go along with that he's not "negotiating"?

Fortunately at least according the poll numbers even moderate republicans and low-information independents who rarely think about politics don't see it that way. You may or may not be aware of this depending on how deep in the bubble you are, but republicans are kinda panicking right now and just trying to get out of this saving some kind of face.
Yeah, umm relying on a comedian who tells it like it isn't for your source of news to bolster your flawed point of view doesn't exactly give credence to your opinion. The fact that the President has unilaterally changed the law in it's implementation not only gives the House of Representatives the constitutional authority but the responsibility to withhold funding in order to rein in the executive branch from overreaching it's authority. It is called equal treatment under the law. The Republicans have sent bill after bill to re-open the government and it has been the President and the Senate Democrats that keeps saying "NO" in order to keep the Government closed. The Republicans have voted three or four different compromises in order to attempt to establish some common ground and the President and Senate Democrats would have none of it.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:56 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by greg63 View Post
Yeah, umm relying on a comedian who tells it like it isn't for your source of news to bolster your flawed point of view doesn't exactly give credence to your opinion. The fact that the President has unilaterally changed the law in it's implementation not only gives the House of Representatives the constitutional authority but the responsibility to withhold funding in order to rein in the executive branch from overreaching it's authority. It is called equal treatment under the law. The Republicans have sent bill after bill to re-open the government and it has been the President and the Senate Democrats that keeps saying "NO" in order to keep the Government closed. The Republicans have voted three or four different compromises in order to attempt to establish some common ground and the President and Senate Democrats would have none of it.
This isn't going to turn out well for you.

Sorry in advance. Actually, not sorry at all...I think it is funny how fractured and worthless the GOP party is throwing a fit because they are on the wrong side of something signed into law and held up by the courts.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:57 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by greg63 View Post
It's simple all the Republicans have to do is give the President 100% of everything he wants so that there will be nothing left to negotiate. Nothing at all unreasonable about any of that.
Haha, let me guess...you are a guy that gets a ton of e-mail forwards.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:25 AM   #85
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It's dumbfounding to me that in less than a year you GOP'ers have completely forgotten how out of touch you are with average Americans. I understand you're angry as a mother****er over it, but it isn't changing anything. Just like you thought Romney would win in a landslide, you're wrong about this one too. The public is blaming your party for all of this. I'm not even sure the gerrymandering is going to help that party maintain control of the House. Looks like angry fists will be shaking for quite some time to come, because that hole is just getting dug deeper and deeper.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:43 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg63 View Post
Yeah, umm relying on a comedian who tells it like it isn't for your source of news to bolster your flawed point of view doesn't exactly give credence to your opinion. The fact that the President has unilaterally changed the law in it's implementation not only gives the House of Representatives the constitutional authority but the responsibility to withhold funding in order to rein in the executive branch from overreaching it's authority. It is called equal treatment under the law. The Republicans have sent bill after bill to re-open the government and it has been the President and the Senate Democrats that keeps saying "NO" in order to keep the Government closed. The Republicans have voted three or four different compromises in order to attempt to establish some common ground and the President and Senate Democrats would have none of it.
Perceived slights now amend the Constitution?
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:52 AM   #87
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Perceived slights now amend the Constitution?
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:02 AM   #88
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Are you saying medicare pays less than private insurance and keeps costs down? Well that can't be right.
No, I'm not and you're right, it can't. I'm saying Medicare piggybacks on the private healthcare system.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:08 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You people are seriously delusional. You really should try stepping outside the conservative media bubble for a little while. Just a week maybe.

Most negotiations start with "you have something I want, I have something you want". The only kind of negotiation that starts with "I am going to do something very bad if you don't do what I want" is a hostage negotiation. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...ge-negotiation. You also don't pick something you know the other side is never going to cave on in a million years. That's just grandstanding (although I guess it works toward their main goal of not getting primaried).

The ACA was passed, made into law, upheld by the Supreme Court, and the guy who ran for president on repealing it lost. But now 30 or so hard line evangelical tea party nutjobs who think the end of days is right around the corner anyway want to delay Obamacare for a year or they shut down the government. And because Obama won't go along with that he's not "negotiating"?

Fortunately at least according the poll numbers even moderate republicans and low-information independents who rarely think about politics don't see it that way. You may or may not be aware of this depending on how deep in the bubble you are, but republicans are kinda panicking right now and just trying to get out of this saving some kind of face.
Talk about media bubble immersion, get out of here with this hostage taking bullshit.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:11 AM   #90
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Talk about media bubble immersion, get out of here with this hostage taking bullshit.
Why? Thats not media spin, I believe that the Administration used that language too.

And it is the dynamic that was chosen by the minority of the majority in the house.
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