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Old 10-10-2013, 05:32 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Obama Buys Debt Ceiling Debacle - Rejects GOP Offer

Obama Rejects G.O.P. Offer of Short-Term Debt Limit Plan

By JACKIE CALMES and ASHLEY PARKER

At a meeting at the White House, President Obama turned down the proposal from Republicans to extend the nation’s borrowing authority for six weeks because it would not also reopen the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/us...debate.html?hp
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:35 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So you still think there is no downside for the Republican party to shutdown the government to try to defund Obamacare?
I certainly don't fear the downside that you guys from the party of greece are predicting. There's evidence that Republicans are taking the majority of the short term public scorn, but the next election is still a long way off and House Republicans are fairly shielded anyway.

When Obamacare continues to be a massive cluster**** and when people see the inequality involved in Obama's implementation, they'll remember who was fighting against it and that won't be a negative.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:41 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I certainly don't fear the downside that you guys from the party of greece are predicting. There's evidence that Republicans are taking the majority of the short term public scorn, but the next election is still a long way off and House Republicans are fairly shielded anyway.

When Obamacare continues to be a massive cluster**** and when people see the inequality involved in Obama's implementation, they'll remember who was fighting against it and that won't be a negative.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:19 AM   #108
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I can't give you a full accounting, but it's happened multiple times. Most recently, it happened when excessive appropriations were addressed through the sequester compromise. It also happened during the Clinton/Gingrich years.
Clinton Grinrich > Obama Bohner
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Clinton Grinrich > Obama Bohner
I would agree with that.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:26 AM   #110
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:45 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I can't give you a full accounting, but it's happened multiple times. Most recently, it happened when excessive appropriations were addressed through the sequester compromise. It also happened during the Clinton/Gingrich years.
That didnt sound like an outright repeal of a major piece of legislation.

It sounded like a couple of minor amendments to existing legislation.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
That didnt sound like an outright repeal of a major piece of legislation.

It sounded like a couple of minor amendments to existing legislation.
You're quibbling about degree rather than principle.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:02 PM   #113
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So for anyone keeping score, these deal talks are about as clear as mud right now. The Democrats rejected the Senate offer, saying they want concessions of their own around the sequester. They're apparently emboldened by that NBC poll - which they shouldn't be. That poll only gives surface information and doesn't account for much of the facts on the ground that lay outside of the polls rigid framework.

For instance, if the ask me whether I approve of the Republican party, I'd have to say no. That doesn't mean I don't want them to fight.

In any case, I'm dying to know what points the Republicans end up selling out on. It's hard to have too much faith in Boehner, but from what I've read, he may actually hold the line based on his knowledge of where the party is moving, and what it means for his speakership should he bail out now. I think he wants to actually fight along with the tea party (or whatever you want to call the conservatives - Tea Party doesn't mean anything anymore - that's another one - I'd say i don't like the tea party if polled because too many hangers on have co-opted it) so he can say "see? You can trust me."
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:16 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I certainly don't fear the downside
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
When Obamacare continues to be a massive cluster**** and when people see the inequality involved in Obama's implementation, they'll remember who was fighting against it and that won't be a negative.
I still don't think you are answering the question.

Seems to me you are saying we will be okay in the long run. And thats okay but thats not what you were saying when this started. You were adamant that there was no downside to this approach?

So you still don't see a downside to picking a fight over Obamacare? This whole shutdown/debt ceiling debacle?
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:38 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I still don't think you are answering the question.

Seems to me you are saying we will be okay in the long run. And thats okay but thats not what you were saying when this started. You were adamant that there was no downside to this approach?

So you still don't see a downside to picking a fight over Obamacare? This whole shutdown/debt ceiling debacle?
I don't remember being adamant that there was no downside to this approach. In fact, if anything, originally I was more inclined to think that allowing the government to shutdown was politically dangerous for the GOP.

I don't think long term downside is likely, although I would never say it's not possible.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:13 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I still don't think you are answering the question.

Seems to me you are saying we will be okay in the long run. And thats okay but thats not what you were saying when this started. You were adamant that there was no downside to this approach?

So you still don't see a downside to picking a fight over Obamacare? This whole shutdown/debt ceiling debacle?
This is the silliest attempt at a gotcha I've seen in some time.

Of course there is a downside of telling people that we need to reign in spending. When you turn off the free money spigot, the person at valve end of the faucet are going to be seen as villains. That doesn't mean that they're wrong, though.

And all things considered, even if the people get angry, the electoral math plays out very well in the GOP's favor. Don't believe me?

Ask Nate Silver:

"The media is probably overstating the magnitude of the shutdown's political impact....The impact of the 1995-96 shutdowns is overrated in Washington's mythology...Democrats face extremely unfavorable conditions in trying to regain the House...The polling data on the shutdown is not yet all that useful, and we lack data on most important measures of voter preferences..."
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:15 PM   #117
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Finally something useful on today's talks... Looks like Unions are going to get some relief...

Unions poised to win delay of ObamaCare tax in budget deal
By Elise Viebeck - 10/14/13

Labor unions are poised to score the delay of an ObamaCare tax in the bipartisan budget deal emerging in the Senate.

The bargain under negotiation would make small adjustments to the healthcare law, including delaying the law's reinsurance fee for one year. The three-year tax is meant to generate revenue that will stabilize premiums on the individual market as sick patients enter the risk pool.
The tax applies to all group health plans, but unions argue it will raise their healthcare costs while providing them no benefit.
The reinsurance tax figured prominently in discussions at a recent AFL-CIO convention, where workers passed a resolution demanding changes to ObamaCare.

The White House recently denied labor's top priority on ObamaCare, ruling that union health plans are not eligible for the new subsidies because they are already helped by the tax code.

Democrats could be pushing to delay the reinsurance fee for one year as an olive branch after that apparent slight, though it could also create trouble for insurers on the marketplaces.

The possible Senate deal would raise the nation's debt ceiling until mid-February, immediately reopen the government and provide funding until Jan. 15.

It remains to be seen if House Republicans will accept a package that does little to thwart ObamaCare.

The emerging Senate deal defies several expectations when it comes to the healthcare law.

It does nothing to delay or end a new tax on medical devices, for example — a move that appeared to be gaining momentum earlier in the week.

The 2.3 percent tax, which has opposition in both parties, is expected to generate about $30 billion in revenue for ObamaCare over the next 10 years.

Supporters say the fee is fair because the device industry will benefit from a wider customer base under the healthcare law.

But device makers say their tax will cut jobs and stymie innovation, and this argument has gained traction on Capitol Hill.

A bill to repeal the device tax has more than 260 co-sponsors in the House, and 30 Democratic senators opposed the fee alongside their GOP colleagues in a symbolic vote earlier this year.

Democrats are considering including a provision in the emerging deal to require income verification for people receiving federal discounts on healthcare coverage.

But a Democratic aide characterized that reform as a "nothing-burger" because it would only enforce existing law.


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...-olive-branch-
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:05 PM   #118
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This is the silliest attempt at a gotcha I've seen in some time.
This was between me and Patteau not you. I'm not a politian, I don't do gothcha. Not my schtick.

Your opinion of what will be politically popular or who will win an election holds no weight. Your all over the place. You are allowed to state your views but it will sway no one.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:44 PM   #119
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Peter Bienart: Why the Shutdown is a Republican Victory

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Let’s pause for a moment to underscore the point. In early September, a “clean” CR—including sequester cuts—that funded the government into 2014 was considered a Republican victory by both the Republican House Majority Leader and Washington’s most prominent Democratic think tank. Now, just over a month later, the media is describing the exact same deal as Republican “surrender.”

Partly, that’s because of Ted Cruz. Starting last month, as we all know, the Texas Senator—in conjunction with his fellow Tea Partiers in the House—forced GOP leaders to abandon the very “clean” CR proposal they had once championed. The new Republican position became no funding for the government and no increase in the debt ceiling without the defunding (or at least delaying) of Obamacare.

Now that Republicans are backing off those demands, the press is saying they’ve caved. But that’s like saying that the neighborhood bully has caved because after demanding your shoes and bike, he’s once again willing to accept merely your lunch money.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:30 AM   #120
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Don't keep repeating facts, the tea baggers don't care about silly facts, and all...
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