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Old 10-11-2013, 10:33 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...pen-Government

House Republicans have sent the White House a revised proposal to lift the debt ceiling for six weeks, as well as reopen government through December 15th, which was their original spending proposal before the partial shutdown. The revised GOP plan reflects the demands Obama made in a meeting with House GOP Leaders on Thursday. It also reflects the unwillingness of the DC GOP to face a fiscal showdown with Democrats.

In exchange for meeting, at least momentarily, all of Obama's demands, the House GOP is seeking a "framework" for future negotiations on addressing longer-term budget issues. These negotiations would be led for the Republicans by Rep. Paul Ryan, who is likely to seek a "grand bargain" resolving the nation's structural budget problems.

After such a swift capitulation on the current impasse, how likely is it that the GOP will be able to extract meaningful reforms during yet another round of budget talks? House Leadership has already shown that, when nearing an actual deadline, it will cave while extracting very few concessions.

The GOP surrender comes at a time when it is in a stronger position than it was during the partial government shutdown in 1995/96. The public generally blames both parties and President Obama for the fiscal stalemate. Obama's approval ratings, meanwhile, have cratered to 37%, the lowest of his Presidency.

In addition, 61% of the public thinks significant spending cuts have to be part of any deal to lift the debt ceiling. By that, they mean actual cuts, not a "framework" to discuss cuts.

The House GOP has signaled to the Democrats that it is desperate to end the stand-off. They will, of course, promise that they will have more "leverage" next time. They've said that so many times, they probably even believe it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:48 PM   #31
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The problem with your thesis is that many if not most Americans either oppose the law or have, at best, serious doubts about it. Your comparisons to other things is dumb because those have bipartisan support. The ACA did not, just like abortion does not and that why those battles will always rage on.


If the GOP had gotten privatization of SS done under W, there is no way the Democrats would've just given up and accepted it as "settled law". They would fight it forever and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #32
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The Republicans not compromising would be complete political suicide, and one that could take years to correct. Which would make it impossible to win the next election and lose control of both houses for years.

The fact that people would call this "caving" says everything about what's wrong with the party today.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblowfish View Post
All I can say is, the tactic of shutting down the government because of a law that is unpopular with the Tea Party sets a very dangerous precedent. Imagine if Democrats were to shut down the government over gun registration and ownership laws? It could happen if this tactic becomes part of the legislative "toolbox." Throw tantrum until you get something you want.

I agree that if the law is a bad law, then the Republicans should be able to convince enough voters to elect politicians that will repeal it. They had two shots; in 2008 and 2012, and failed on both of those votes. Good luck on 2016, especially once people figure out that the Affordable Care Act is a good thing. You know, like Medicare is a good thing, and letting black people vote is a good thing, and letting women vote is a good thing....
The dems shut down congress over a ****ing pay raise
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblowfish View Post
All I can say is, the tactic of shutting down the government because of a law that is unpopular with the Tea Party sets a very dangerous precedent. Imagine if Democrats were to shut down the government over gun registration and ownership laws? It could happen if this tactic becomes part of the legislative "toolbox." Throw tantrum until you get something you want.

I agree that if the law is a bad law, then the Republicans should be able to convince enough voters to elect politicians that will repeal it. They had two shots; in 2008 and 2012, and failed on both of those votes. Good luck on 2016, especially once people figure out that the Affordable Care Act is a good thing. You know, like Medicare is a good thing, and letting black people vote is a good thing, and letting women vote is a good thing....
No, that couldn't ever happen.

There was no election in 2008 that had anything at all to do with Obamacare.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The Republicans not compromising would be complete political suicide, and one that could take years to correct. Which would make it impossible to win the next election and lose control of both houses for years.

The fact that people would call this "caving" says everything about what's wrong with the party today.
The majority of people calling it "caving" are democrats.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The majority of people calling it "caving" are democrats.
The teabaggers who got all riled up over the thought of Obamacare repeal will say the Rs caved.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The teabaggers who got all riled up over the thought of Obamacare repeal will say the Rs caved.
I hate to agree with you, but you're right.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, that couldn't ever happen.

There was no election in 2008 that had anything at all to do with Obamacare.
Sure, that's technically true. But Obama had been outed as a socialist Al Qaeda plant by then, so we had an idea what was coming. He was elected anyway, even though it was well-known he would be implementing sharia law.
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:44 PM   #39
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Now they are saying the Repub bill will also reverse sequester cuts. All this to repeal the medical device tax as well as stronger income verification for Obamacare as well as establishing a framework for further negotiations. If the Dems turn that down then they can go **** themselves. They were just handed everything they wanted and asked for damn near nothing but to get rid of a tax they don't like themselves.
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The public never was going to go along with the GOP, don't know why they even did this.
They'll find out soon enough when they start getting their new insurance premium rates. These guys have a winning hand and don't know how to play it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:23 PM   #41
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They'll find out soon enough when they start getting their new insurance premium rates. These guys have a winning hand and don't know how to play it.
Exactly. The Dems were about to hang themselves, and the GOP ran into them, grabbed the noose, and put it around their own neck.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Exactly. The Dems were about to hang themselves, and the GOP ran into them, grabbed the noose, and put it around their own neck.
I don't think so. I understand that is how the so-called narrative is going, but that's to be expected. We live in a society dominated by a leftist/establishment media with power to protect. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg on how incompetent the roll out to Obamacare is, and as people start to wake up to its realities, the back lash against it will dwarf what we're seeing now.

This fight is accomplishing tangible results for the Republican party, but you're not going to see those reported on by a leftist media who is trying to squash the insurgency across the aisle.

This shut down is a total disaster for the establishment GOP, but it's not for what comes next. The reason the GOP's numbers are so low has little to do with the left or even moderates not liking the party. It's about what is wrong within its own walls.

If you want a more complete picture, this article pretty well sums up the battle pretty nicely:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...publican-party
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:59 PM   #43
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Here's another angle you're not going to see Maddow reporting on:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...silver-lining/
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblowfish View Post
Bill Moyers on the subject of the shutdown. Finally, a voice of reason....

http://billmoyers.com/segment/bill-m...down-showdown/
Bill Moyers ? Seriously ???
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:03 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The teabaggers who got all riled up over the thought of Obamacare repeal will say the Rs caved.
You get wood when you type teabaggers dont you
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