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Old 10-11-2013, 12:43 PM  
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Joseph Atwill Claims Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.

London (PRWEB UK) 8 October 2013

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."

Further information can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com.

About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book "Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."



http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Hamwallet View Post
Cool. But that does not provide physical evidence of a god. Try again.
I don't need to, your mind is already made up.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:52 PM   #47
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Not NON existent. There are a number of historical references that COULD be the same Jesus. The problem is (like I said before) there were A LOT of Jesuses at the time so I'm not sure how valid it is to pick out the historical references you like and ignore the Jesus references you don't like.

Let's not say DARK skinned. That's probably not true either. He just as easily could look like any average Lebanese person does today... which is a pretty broad range to go by. (I say Lebanese because the ethnic makeup is closer to Israel During Jesus' time than modern day Israel is)
Yeah. As I recall that is a very broad range of physical characteristics.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #48
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You keep on hating, I'll keep laughing.
You believe in invisible gate keepers and pitchfork wielding devils. I'm sure you laugh at a lot of things.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #49
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You can look up Testimonium Flavianum if you like, that might explain a few things for you. Or you can ignore it and follow your current favorite GOD hater.
Or you can stop acting like a teen girl who has missed her prom and actually discuss a religious topic rationally.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:56 PM   #50
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You believe in invisible gate keepers and pitchfork wielding devils. I'm sure you laugh at a lot of things.
I believe neither, but nice try.

If you want to believe I come in a red suit with pitch fork, that's fine.
Truth Is I wear whatever suits me at the time.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Or you can stop acting like a teen girl who has missed her prom and actually discuss a religious topic rationally.
Look it up and move the goal posts, go ahead you know you want to.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #52
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I believe neither, but nice try.
ZOMG!!!! U R nnr gnna get that Jesus guy to take u 2 teh prom!!!
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #53
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Look it up and move the goal posts, go ahead you know you want to.
Present whatever it is that you thought was relevant. You've done nothing but post a link.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #54
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ZOMG!!!! U R nnr gnna get that Jesus guy to take u 2 teh prom!!!
Loser tactics, enjoy that. If you want to come back and discuss it with the adults let me know.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:59 PM   #55
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Loser tactics, enjoy that. If you want to come back and discuss it with the adults let me know.
O Noes!!! U R a hater!!!!
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:00 PM   #56
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Present whatever it is that you thought was relevant. You've done nothing but post a link.
Obviously you've seen both sides so no need for me to do more legwork than the phrase/link. A 2 second google search would do wonders. Pssst..It's a NON CHRISTIAN source.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:01 PM   #57
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O Noes!!! U R a hater!!!!
O Yez, a Hata! I'm still laughing.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:01 PM   #58
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Obviously you've seen both sides so no need for me to do more legwork than the phrase/link. A 2 second google search would do wonders. Pssst..It's a NON CHRISTIAN source.

Still waiting for you to post whatever it is that you thought was relevant.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #59
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No, not at all. Actual historical references to Jesus Christ are essentially non existent outside of Christian sources or sources that stemmed directly from Christian sources.

And if Jesus did exist, he would have definitely been dark skinned. The Jesus pictures hanging in most American homes are just blatantly wrong and show a need for people to identify with a Jesus similar in appearance to them.
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Yep.

The existence of A Jesus is not in question, there are a ton of accounts of various "messianic" Jesuses (Jesae?) at the time. There isn't however much concrete historical evidence of one particular Jesus that fits the New Testament narrative. The closest thing we have is from Tacitus mentioning a Jesus being sentenced to death by Pilate... but again, remember there were a LOT of Jesuses running around at that time claiming to be Saviours... so it stands to reason a number of them would get themselves killed for it.
You guys apparently haven't read Killing Jesus
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:05 PM   #60
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Still waiting for you to post whatever it is that you thought was relevant.
Here read this whiles I goes to get ya binky baby....

"Jewish Antiquities", by Flavius Josephus. Book 18, Chapter 3, paragraphs 1-5. Paragraph 3 is the Testimonium Flavianum itself, which contains the reference to Jesus Christ.

Chapter 3.

Rebellion of the Jews against Pontius Pilate. Concerning Christ, and what befell Paulina and the Jews at Rome.

1. (55) But now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Caesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced Caesar's effigies, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; (56) on which account the former procurators were accustomed to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments. Pilate was the first who brought those images to Jerusalem, and set them up there; which was done without the knowledge of the people, because it was done in the nighttime; (57) but as soon as they knew it, they came in multitudes to Caesarea, and interceded with Pilate many days that he would remove the images; and when he would not grant their requests, because it would tend to the injury of Caesar, while yet they persevered in their request, on the sixth day he ordered his soldiers to have their weapons privately, while he came and sat upon his judgment seat, which seat was so prepared in the open place of the city, that it concealed the army that lay ready to oppress them; (58) and when the Jews petitioned him again, he gave a signal to the soldiers to surround them, and threatened that their punishment should be no less than immediate death, unless they would leave off disturbing him, and go their ways home. (59) But they threw themselves upon the ground, and laid their necks bare, and said they would take their death very willingly, rather than the wisdom of their laws should be transgressed; upon which Pilate was deeply affected with their firm resolution to keep their laws inviolable, and presently commanded the images to be carried back from Jerusalem to Caesarea.

2. (60) But Pilate undertook to bring a current of water to Jerusalem, and did it with the sacred money, and derived the origin of the stream from the distance of two hundred furlongs. However, the Jews [1] were not pleased with what had been done about this water; and many ten thousands of the people got together, and made a clamor against him, and insisted that he should leave off that design. Some of them also used reproaches, and abused the man, as crowds of such people usually do. (61) So he outfitted a great number of his soldiers in the clothing of the crowd, who carried daggers under their garments, and sent them to a place where they might surround them. So he directed the Jews himself to go away; but when they boldly cast reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; (62) who laid upon them much greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were disorderly, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least: and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them killed by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this rebellion.

3. (63) Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. (64) And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross [2], those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day [3], as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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