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Old 10-16-2013, 05:15 PM  
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Who Approves Of Obamacare?

Blacks: 91%
Hispanics: 61%
Whites: 29%


Source: Pew Research Center and USA Today survey conducted Sept. 4-8




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ical-edge.html
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:06 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I'm sure they are still just as enthralled by BHO's smile.
Their entire premise was that by virtue of government intervention, they could "bend the cost curve down" (whoever came up with that phrase should be beaten severely with a cane). They claimed that in pure single-payer systems the government has even more pricing power and can just dictate 2% annual growth rates in costs because they're the only source of demand.


So you get 20M newbies into the system, without even bothering the other 250M covered simply by price controls. Something for everyone!
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:27 AM   #32
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Who Approves Of Obamacare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
But your own link said they're evenly divided on abortion and by more than a 2-1 margin, favor allowing gays to marry vs. banning it. So what social issues are you referring to?
I misread. I thought it said 47% strongly oppose plus another 37% somewhat oppose. Regardless, from my extensive interaction with Hispanics I see the tendency to value faith very strongly, so the idea that they could find themselves siding with a party that is all about that, is not that much a reach.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
But, I'm pretty sure that the pitch was that costs were actually going to go DOWN, even for people who already had insurance.

IIRC, there were plenty of people on this very website who claimed that.

I wonder if they still do?
They actually deny those claims were ever made.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I misread. I thought it said 47% strongly oppose plus another 37% somewhat oppose. Regardless, from my extensive interaction with Hispanics I see the tendency to value faith very strongly, so the idea that they could find themselves siding with a party that is all about that, is not that much a reach.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
They actually deny those claims were ever made.
Remember the good old days?

"You can keep your plan"

"You can keep your doctor"

"Won't add one dime to the deficit."

The age of innocence
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I misread. I thought it said 47% strongly oppose plus another 37% somewhat oppose. Regardless, from my extensive interaction with Hispanics I see the tendency to value faith very strongly, so the idea that they could find themselves siding with a party that is all about that, is not that much a reach.
Hispanics tend to not vote their faith. While Hispanics value faith, we don't use it as a template to make rules for others unlike a lot of the religious US populations.

Aside from that, Catholicism is the dominant religion and that's about as nonjudgemental as it gets for members. Do some bad shit, go to confession, say some things in penance and it's a fresh start. (I loved catholic girls when I was younger.)
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Hispanics tend to not vote their faith. While Hispanics value faith, we don't use it as a template to make rules for others unlike a lot of the religious US populations.

Aside from that, Catholicism is the dominant religion and that's about as nonjudgemental as it gets for members. Do some bad shit, go to confession, say some things in penance and it's a fresh start. (I loved catholic girls when I was younger.)
I agree with this completely. That article I linked mentioned how only 8% viewed social issues as the most important. That is what I was getting at in that they are happy to have the freedoms to worship and teach their own morals and values, but they don't necessarily seek to push those onto others so it just isn't an important voting concern.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Hard working, family oriented, religious, socially conservatice
None of those claims can be proven, and in fact some are easily disproven.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:07 PM   #39
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The central lie of Obamacare was that it will be good for everyone.

If you have a job or were already covered otherwise, its likely very bad for you. Your cost is going to go up significantly. The only people this benefits are people who had no coverage whatever and the actual percentage of those is in the single digits.

You cant ram 20 million more people into the system without the producers who were already paying for the consumers having to pay more. Duh.

This was such a big obvious lie that it took a historic lying campaign by the Obama administration, their cheerful accomplices in the media, and many millions of deceived or willfully ignorant private citizens.

But the premiums wont lie, when everyone receives those letters that are going out now from insurance providers explaining the new post-Obamacare normal, and when people who are insured through their work see the cost for next year soon, now that benefits elections season is upon us.

You can't fool everyone forever. If America is good for anything anymore, its voting for their own wallets.

The producers won't put up with this, no matter how much the consumers liked being able to vote themselves money out of the producers' pockets.

I think that is a reasonable assessment of the plan but, in the spirit of fairness there are somethings in it that many people do like. Young adults and many of their parents very much like being able to keep their kids on their health insurance longer. Many people like that a preexisting condition can’t keep them from getting healthcare. And Ummm. that is all that quickly come to mind and those could have been easily legislated on a single piece of paper.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:07 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
None of those claims can be proven, and in fact some are easily disproven.
I didnt mean I subscribed, just that this is why people say they might be natural republicans.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:04 PM   #41
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I wonder if there's ever going to be a poll where whites and minorities think the same way. Maybe approval for the killing of Bin Laden. That might have been one.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
But, I'm pretty sure that the pitch was that costs were actually going to go DOWN, even for people who already had insurance.

IIRC, there were plenty of people on this very website who claimed that.

I wonder if they still do?
It was.

Like I said - sit back and let this happen folks.

Obama and his supporters assured us that this was going to increase the quality of care in this country and provide benefits to all of us. I was assured that this wasn't just another massive entitlement program.

So let them prove it.

I'm betting they can't.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:34 PM   #43
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Many people's care, if you're young and/or healthy you're getting ****ed. The single most offensive bit is the limit that says the most expensive premium can be no more expensive than 3X the cheapest one. So if you'd normally have an expensive premium then you're getting a deal in many cases.

If you were young and/or healthy you now have to pay MUCH more for your policy because the sickest are now paying much less. So the healthiest are now subsidizing the sickest.

That frankly is not how the system should work and honestly isn't scalable.
Why would the young/healthy pay to subsidize the sick? The ONLY reason to do so is if you have significant assets that you can't afford to lose in bankruptcy.

If you've got nothing you're better off telling the system to go pound sand and pay the fine. Basically the best model for most people is to not buy healthy insurance when they are young and take their chances. Only when they get old enough or sick enough should they consider buying healthy insurance. AND since you can't be denied for preexisting conditions there's really not much downside to rolling the dice.

If you get sick you'll still get treated, you just may have to declare bankruptcy if you get really unlucky when you're young. But if you can put off treatment for a few months(or manufacture a life event like a job loss), you can then buy insurance when you get sick and you're all good to go.

Hell get really sick....quit your job(or get married)....have a 'life event' that allows you to now buy insurance from the exchanges and bam you're covered the next day. Why should the young and generally healthy buy insurance off the exchanges again? Because it's the 'right' thing to do?
I'm not sure why you say that's not how the system should work. It seems to me that the whole point of insurance is for the healthy to pay more than they need to so that the sick can get care they otherwise couldn't afford.

I enthusiastically agree with some of your other criticisms though.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not sure why you say that's not how the system should work. It seems to me that the whole point of insurance is for the healthy to pay more than they need to so that the sick can get care they otherwise couldn't afford.

I enthusiastically agree with some of your other criticisms though.
That's the way all insurance works, of course. See the Progressive "ratesucker" commercials about car insurance, where they make fun of the bad drivers driving up everyone else's rates.

The problem is this system was sold to us with unvarnished lies that it would drive costs downward, when for the vast majority of people, it will drive them significantly upward.

They took the delicate balance that already existed where the healthy subsidized the chronically ill, and pushed it over the breaking point.

Before, the sick couldn't afford to pay for their coverage, now the healthy can't afford it either.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
That's the way all insurance works, of course. See the Progressive "ratesucker" commercials about car insurance, where they make fun of the bad drivers driving up everyone else's rates.

The problem is this system was sold to us with unvarnished lies that it would drive costs downward, when for the vast majority of people, it will drive them significantly upward.

They took the delicate balance that already existed where the healthy subsidized the chronically ill, and pushed it over the breaking point.

Before, the sick couldn't afford to pay for their coverage, now the healthy can't afford it either.
Right, I agree.

The only quibble I have with your description (and in fairness it's probably not anything you were even trying to address) is that whether insurance rates go up or down, the real problem is the underlying cost of health care services. Even if Obamacare somehow managed to fulfill it's promise of spreading the premium cost to a larger insured base thereby driving average premium prices down, it would still only be temporary relief as there is nothing significant in Obamacare to address the rapidly rising underlying costs of care. Premiums would simply start their upward climb again.
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