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Old 10-17-2013, 01:46 AM  
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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Is the Republican Party the thing of the past? Doom and Gloom

I'll give the democrats this, they have a brilliant approach to guarantee a long career in politics. They won't be beaten again.

Keys to victory:
-Own the mainstream media. CNN, MSNBC etc
-Own the national news papers. NYT, Washington Post etc
-Own the online "news" like Yahoo News and other popular online news sites.
-Own Hollywood

This creates propaganda 24x7.

-Own the uninformed voter that cares more about voting based on race or their own personal agenda's instead of what's better for the country.

-Black vote is heavy Obama for the simple reason: he is black. They own a strong advantage in the woman's vote because of Pro Choice and they revere Hillary Clinton.

-Own the poor vote by sacrificing the upper/middle class by extreme taxes. They are much more likely to turn out because what else do they have to do other than vote. Voting can be seen as their job, because if they don't vote, their handouts can get taken away or altered. They are also moving a lot of the middle class into the poor class, thus increasing their voting pool.

-Own the Hispanic vote by opening the floodgates along the southern border no matter how damaging this is to the economy. This vote will only get larger.

-Own the younger vote by putting extreme leftist in colleges to pollute young, impressionable minds.

-Buy votes with special treatment. Obamacare is hated by the country, yet they depend on the unions so they pass exemptions for them. Oh, don't want their own party in congress to start questioning it, so they pass exemptions for them.


Their tactics are sickening, but brilliant. No way can the Republicans or any potential party compete with the propaganda machine, free handouts and illegal immigrants amnesty. I honestly can't see the Republicans ever winning another presidential election and after this latest f up, I don't see them controlling the house/senate anytime soon.

Never has a President been able to and excused for lying as much as Obama. Never have I seen a President continue to convince people that it's OK to spend up to 1/4 of your income on healthcare, where no where in the world spends more than 4% of their income on healthcare. I sat and watched a young democrat college student at a very prominent school beg to be taxed 60% of her income or more. Are you effing stupid I thought?

I think there is more likely to be a civil war, complete collapse of the US or the red states seceding before republicans control the white house again, not unless things change significantly.

As an American, I am terrified. Regardless of political affiliation, you should be to.

Last edited by jaa1025; 10-17-2013 at 02:08 AM..
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #31
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A house of cards they're selling (until it falls down). And yes, the liberals have done masterful job at amassing a following.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Ironic post is ironic.

But it's also simply misinformed. At worst, Democrats are the equal of Republicans in the 'haughtiness' category. As has been said many times around here, Democrats are the party of inclusion, so long as you agree with them.

Look at the rhetoric they've been throwing around even over the last couple of weeks. Republicans have been called every name in the book, all the way up to terrorists.

The issue as I see it anyway is that the Democratic ideology is a phenomenal soundbite ideology. Hell, I've been saying that since the late-90s when I become at all politically aware. Being a Democrat sounds far more fun and simply more fair on its face. In 10 second quips, populism rules the world.

And things like the rise of the Twitterverse and the constant bombardment of messages (or stimuli in general), we've become a culture based around soundbites. The Republican soundbite is a harder pitch to make - immigration is a perfect example. It just sounds mean whereas the D approach of letting everyone in and being inclusive doesn't. In the end, however, the D approach isn't tenable either because of simple stuff like the Freerider Effect that we've known about for decades.

The Republican Party isn't dead because the Democratic economic approach can't hold up. According to some of our esteemed D posters around here, the fact that the economy has been in a stall at best throughout Obama's administration is the Rs fault, but lets say another D wins in 2016 - it'll stay in a stall. If the Ds take control of the House and Senate, it'll go into outright freefall. Businesses cannot and will not operate in this climate of regulation. I know it's absolutely blistering my firm and that's only because our clients have been so overwrought by the demands being made on them that they're passing them down. The economy can't thrive under this.

But it can't really be allowed to run completely unregulated either. There's a happy medium that the electorate inadvertently creates through their fickle nature. The worm will turn - it always does. And it will be because the D's will eventually run out of people to blame for a wrongheaded economic approach.

Rs are fighting uphill - there's no question. It's harder to build arguments in 140 characters centered on self-sufficiency and fiscal responsibility. And I'm sorry, Ds just cannot claim there is no media bias - there clearly is. But it's not an impossible battle and the R message still resonates in many many ways with the majority of Americans. They just need to stop taking bait and allowing shiny objects distract them into fights that they don't want. Quit arguing gay marriage - you'll lose (again, the soundbites are awful). Quit allowing yourself to get drawn into friggen discourses on rape. How the !@#$ does that even happen?

Just focus on outcomes - because for a vast majority of Americans, the Obama administrations outcomes will be largely negative. These Obamacare measures are going to lead to increased premiums, tax burdens and joblessness for more people than it helps. The Democrats, as is their custom, will blame everyone else for those problems but in the end the Democratic Messiah's name is slapped on the thing. Good luck passing that off as a Republican screwup.

Hrmmm....While i can agree with most of your post, it doesn't change the fact the republicans have a serious image problem on their hands and things like twitter and the internet in general aren't helping.

I'll use my self as an example: I came into this forum and started paying attention to politics a few years ago. I'm pretty new to this game. My family had always identified as Republican, and after learning about the parties and their goals, I thought of myself as someone who leaned towards Republican.

However, after engaging in conversations with Republicans both here and in person, i realized that while I CAN identify with a lot of the republican's ideas and how they want the country shaped, i do NOT identify with the republican VOTER....at all.

So while the Republican party sounded great on paper....after speaking with the actual voters on social issues such as immigration, i had to take a pause...

"whoa whoa whoa.....you wanna do what now?" There was so much ignorance on some of these issues that the party became a complete turn off.

I said to myself, "I simply can't identify with some of these people. I can't call myself 'republican' because we simply do not share the same views on these social issues".

At the same time, the welfare state sickens me. I can't really identify as a democrat either. I made a thread about it and was told that i sound like a libertarian. Maybe i do...but this is a two party race so being a libertarian just makes you irrelevant.

I am not alone in my thinking. Several times on this forum I've mentioned a conversation i had with a girl during the last presidential election.

Again, her ideals and what she valued strongly suggested she was republican. However, she was going to vote Democrat because as a young latin woman, she was completely put off by the republican VOTER.

The way that republicans talk about Mexicans, blacks, the poor....it's really off-putting. So while the PARTY sounds good, the VOTER does not.

IMO, this is only going to get worse.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
The Republican Party isn't dead because the Democratic economic approach can't hold up. According to some of our esteemed D posters around here, the fact that the economy has been in a stall at best throughout Obama's administration is the Rs fault, but lets say another D wins in 2016 - it'll stay in a stall. If the Ds take control of the House and Senate, it'll go into outright freefall. Businesses cannot and will not operate in this climate of regulation. I know it's absolutely blistering my firm and that's only because our clients have been so overwrought by the demands being made on them that they're passing them down. The economy can't thrive under this.

But it can't really be allowed to run completely unregulated either. There's a happy medium that the electorate inadvertently creates through their fickle nature. The worm will turn - it always does. And it will be because the D's will eventually run out of people to blame for a wrongheaded economic approach.

....

Just focus on outcomes - because for a vast majority of Americans, the Obama administrations outcomes will be largely negative. These Obamacare measures are going to lead to increased premiums, tax burdens and joblessness for more people than it helps. The Democrats, as is their custom, will blame everyone else for those problems but in the end the Democratic Messiah's name is slapped on the thing. Good luck passing that off as a Republican screwup.
The economy has been growing since 2009. It hasn't been in a stall. FFS, get your basic facts right. In addition to that, the evidence is building that we will break out of the 1-2.5% GDP growth range by next year. A 3% GDP growth print is very likely for 2014. Just because the current growth isn't high enough for you due to your political leanings (I really doubt you'd say the same thing had Mittens been elected), doesn't mean the economy hasn't been growing.

Blaming presidents and other legislators for the business cycle is dumb.

Increased premiums for medical insurance is a 3 decade old trend. Assigning that to ACA is dumb as well. The additional tax burden ACA imposes is negligible. Attributing job losses that haven't occurred yet to the ACA is dumb also.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #34
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It will take a Reagan style turn-around, led by someone who understands that being the party of "no" without any real alternative vision for the country is not going to reverse this trend. A positive, upbeat, and visionary plan addressing at least 2-3 of the following would be a good start:

1. Reforming entitlement programs to ensure solvency (sorry kids, they ain't going away)
2. Growing the economy by focusing on jobs (instead of maximizing wealth for the top 3 %)
3. Reexamination of our international role and defense spending, by shifting a larger share of the responsibility and burden to other nations.
4. Addressing immigration in a constructive fashion
5. Simplifying/reforming the tax code
6. Tort reform to restore sanity to a legal system that is a huge drag on our economy.

Instead of focusing on what is wrong, craft a fresh vision for the future—a vision that relies much more heavily on looking forward and conceives positive solutions to the challenges that confront the nation, rather than the bickering, whining, and constant harping on the past and rehashing of old arguments that they have lost and the nation has moved past.

FTR, this is exactly the opposite of where the party, currently, seems headed—especially as it is articulated by the Tea Party crowd. I’m not saying I’d endorse any of them at the moment, but at least Christie, Jindahl, and Rubio are striking the right tone that’s in the ballpark of what I’ve outlined. On the other hand, if Paul or Cruz or some other Tea Party lackey ends up with the 2016 nomination, then the Republican party could be headed the way of the Whig party.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #35
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The economy has been growing since 2009. It hasn't been in a stall. FFS, get your basic facts right. In addition to that, the evidence is building that we will break out of the 1-2.5% GDP growth range by next year. A 3% GDP growth print is very likely for 2014. Just because the current growth isn't high enough for you due to your political leanings (I really doubt you'd say the same thing had Mittens been elected), doesn't mean the economy hasn't been growing.

Blaming presidents and other legislators for the business cycle is dumb.

Increased premiums for medical insurance is a 3 decade old trend. Assigning that to ACA is dumb as well. The additional tax burden ACA imposes is negligible. Attributing job losses that haven't occurred yet to the ACA is dumb also.
2011 called. They want their wait till next year excuses back.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #36
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The OP is just an updated version of the culture wars that have waged for going on 50 years. That shit's old, and I think most people Gen X and under want the country to move past it.

There's literally no factual basis for any of his allegations. Blacks didn't vote for Obama because of race.... they always vote Democratic (it boosted turnout, but that's a separate argument). Extreme taxes, are you ****ing kidding me? You'd think the highest marginal tax rate had been restored to JFK levels. Max 4% spending on HC in other countries is demonstrably false. Etc.

Also, re civility, perhaps the RWNJs might want to avoid degrading the national dialogue by calling the President a unAmerican Kenyan Muslim usurper. That does drag things into the gutter a bit.
Perhaps said President shouldn't have walked into office like he had some kind of National mandate, surrounded himself with hatchetmen and bullies then started preaching "We won - deal with it".

Your hero gave the bird to everyone that didn't walk in lock-step with him and now you're shocked that they aren't terribly fond of him.

He's a shit leader. He's always been a shit leader. He came into office with no intention of even discussing consensus and he's going to get indignant when House Republicans use the one avenue at their disposal to get him to come to the table?

Again, this is why you don't govern via fiat. Hell, you can't even run a viable business using that approach, let alone a country. At higher levels, there has to be some committeemen to consensus; be it in government or the private sector. Ultimately the party in power can and should get more of what it wants, but the Ds have come in waving their dicks at everyone else from the start.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
The economy has been growing since 2009. It hasn't been in a stall. FFS, get your basic facts right. In addition to that, the evidence is building that we will break out of the 1-2.5% GDP growth range by next year. A 3% GDP growth print is very likely for 2014. Just because the current growth isn't high enough for you due to your political leanings (I really doubt you'd say the same thing had Mittens been elected), doesn't mean the economy hasn't been growing.

Blaming presidents and other legislators for the business cycle is dumb.

Increased premiums for medical insurance is a 3 decade old trend. Assigning that to ACA is dumb as well. The additional tax burden ACA imposes is negligible. Attributing job losses that haven't occurred yet to the ACA is dumb also.
Yes I know. It's all wine and roses. Your hero's done a great job. Understand - I'm not really talking to you. I'm never really talking to you or Cave or that guy with the lizard avatar. You know what you know and by God that's the way it is. Fine.

And as someone that works very closely with the healthcare industry and is a part-owner of a company trying desperately to deal with both the pending Obamacare mandates and the mountain of laws being passed by other agencies such as the CFPB (which still can't figure out if its coming or going) I can assure you that my concerns are very well founded right now. But hey, leave it to the student to tell people that are actually trying to conduct business in this environment that they're dumb.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
It will take a Reagan style turn-around, led by someone who understands that being the party of "no" without any real alternative vision for the country is not going to reverse this trend. A positive, upbeat, and visionary plan addressing at least 2-3 of the following would be a good start:

1. Reforming entitlement programs to ensure solvency (sorry kids, they ain't going away)
2. Growing the economy by focusing on jobs (instead of maximizing wealth for the top 3 %)
3. Reexamination of our international role and defense spending, by shifting a larger share of the responsibility and burden to other nations.
4. Addressing immigration in a constructive fashion
5. Simplifying/reforming the tax code
6. Tort reform to restore sanity to a legal system that is a huge drag on our economy.

Instead of focusing on what is wrong, craft a fresh vision for the future—a vision that relies much more heavily on looking forward and conceives positive solutions to the challenges that confront the nation, rather than the bickering, whining, and constant harping on the past and rehashing of old arguments that they have lost and the nation has moved past.

FTR, this is exactly the opposite of where the party, currently, seems headed—especially as it is articulated by the Tea Party crowd. I’m not saying I’d endorse any of them at the moment, but at least Christie, Jindahl, and Rubio are striking the right tone that’s in the ballpark of what I’ve outlined. On the other hand, if Paul or Cruz or some other Tea Party lackey ends up with the 2016 nomination, then the Republican party could be headed the way of the Whig party.
I'm not sure that I disagree with anything you've said here.

I'm also not sure that a few of the guys we've tried to get out there haven't been unfairly characterized as exactly the kind of demon you say we can't run again.

Romney ran a friggen liberal state for cryin' out loud. I absolutely believe Romney would've run a very centrist White House and would've worked with both sides of the aisle. But he got cast as a 'RWNJ' as well by the talking heads, who completely ignored his actual record as an executive level politician.

In the end, it doesn't really matter who Republicans put forward as their face - that person is going to get boxed in by the national narrative owned by a very liberal leaning media.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:13 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Perhaps said President shouldn't have walked into office like he had some kind of National mandate, surrounded himself with hatchetmen and bullies then started preaching "We won - deal with it".

Your hero gave the bird to everyone that didn't walk in lock-step with him and now you're shocked that they aren't terribly fond of him.

He's a shit leader. He's always been a shit leader. He came into office with no intention of even discussing consensus and he's going to get indignant when House Republicans use the one avenue at their disposal to get him to come to the table?

Again, this is why you don't govern via fiat. Hell, you can't even run a viable business using that approach, let alone a country. At higher levels, there has to be some committeemen to consensus; be it in government or the private sector. Ultimately the party in power can and should get more of what it wants, but the Ds have come in waving their dicks at everyone else from the start.
Or the lack of bipartisanship you so desperately crave is part of a stated strategy by the R's.

Quote:
The very first bill to be considered on the Senate floor in the 111th Congress, in early January of 2009, before Obama was even inaugurated, was the Public Land Management Act, a sweeping conservation measure with broad bipartisan support that would protect 2 million acres of parks and wilderness in nine states. The Republicans filibustered, forcing a series of votes and requiring a weekend session to finish. The bill eventually passed, 77–20.

“We worked very hard to keep our fingerprints off of these proposals,” McConnell says. “Because we thought—correctly, I think—that the only way the American people would know that a great debate was going on was if the measures were not bipartisan. When you hang the ‘bipartisan’ tag on something, the perception is that differences have been worked out, and there’s a broad agreement that that’s the way forward.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ionist/308344/
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #40
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Also, re civility, perhaps the RWNJs might want to avoid degrading the national dialogue by calling the President a unAmerican Kenyan Muslim usurper. That does drag things into the gutter a bit.
I agree, they should treat the President with respect and dignity just like the Left did towards W.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #41
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The OP is just an updated version of the culture wars that have waged for going on 50 years. That shit's old, and I think most people Gen X and under want the country to move past it.

There's literally no factual basis for any of his allegations. Blacks didn't vote for Obama because of race.... they always vote Democratic (it boosted turnout, but that's a separate argument). Extreme taxes, are you ****ing kidding me? You'd think the highest marginal tax rate had been restored to JFK levels. Max 4% spending on HC in other countries is demonstrably false. Etc.

Also, re civility, perhaps the RWNJs might want to avoid degrading the national dialogue by calling the President a unAmerican Kenyan Muslim usurper. That does drag things into the gutter a bit.

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Old 10-17-2013, 03:30 PM   #42
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Yes I know. It's all wine and roses. Your hero's done a great job. Understand - I'm not really talking to you. I'm never really talking to you or Cave or that guy with the lizard avatar. You know what you know and by God that's the way it is. Fine.

And as someone that works very closely with the healthcare industry and is a part-owner of a company trying desperately to deal with both the pending Obamacare mandates and the mountain of laws being passed by other agencies such as the CFPB (which still can't figure out if its coming or going) I can assure you that my concerns are very well founded right now. But hey, leave it to the student to tell people that are actually trying to conduct business in this environment that they're dumb.
Student? I manage a significant amount of assets.

I never said everything was wine and roses, but you having a political ax to grind doesn't change what's actually happening.

The health care sector is clearly suffering as evidenced by the healthcare ETF.

Also,the CFPB is a good thing and was needed. Crying about having to comply with it is....well....dumb. Perhaps you should bitch to the companies who conducted business that requires the CFPB be around.

Finally, @ saying Obama is my hero. The guy is an awful president. He has extended many of Bush's war on terror bullshit programs. He has not had his Justice Department nor the SEC go after many of the prosecutable crimes from the financial crisis. Whine some more and try again.
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
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KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:32 PM   #43
KC native KC native is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I'm not sure that I disagree with anything you've said here.

I'm also not sure that a few of the guys we've tried to get out there haven't been unfairly characterized as exactly the kind of demon you say we can't run again.

Romney ran a friggen liberal state for cryin' out loud. I absolutely believe Romney would've run a very centrist White House and would've worked with both sides of the aisle. But he got cast as a 'RWNJ' as well by the talking heads, who completely ignored his actual record as an executive level politician.

In the end, it doesn't really matter who Republicans put forward as their face - that person is going to get boxed in by the national narrative owned by a very liberal leaning media.
Romney would have done the same things Obama has. The only difference is he would have probably made our fiscal situation worse by giving people like himself a larger tax cut.
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The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 18,906
KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #44
DJ's left nut DJ's left nut is offline
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Or the lack of bipartisanship you so desperately crave is part of a stated strategy by the R's.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ionist/308344/
It's the President's responsibility to lead - he never even tried.

So when the Republicans ultimately pass a bi-partisan bill but play politics in doing so (as is always the case in Washington), that justifies a President to decide '**** 'em' for the duration of his Presidency? The bill passed with Republican support. They just did the sort of things the minority party always does, on both sides of the aisle.

But then again, you don't really think that Obama would've come in as The Great Uniter had the Republicans sought it. You were there with the rest of the Ds preaching "we won, you'll do what we say and like it".

Regardless, the President sets the tone (or at least he should). This one certainly did when he surrounded himself with people like Pelosi and told everyone else to screw off. You folks acting all wounded that his opponents can't stand this President are being openly and obviously disingenuous. You've never cared about the President's opponents, nor have his advisers or allies. They're simply speedbumps on the great Obama expressway to whatever utopia it is he's concocted in that 'progressive' little mind of his.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:40 PM   #45
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
I'll give the democrats this, they have a brilliant approach to guarantee a long career in politics. They won't be beaten again.

Keys to victory:
-Own the mainstream media. CNN, MSNBC etc
-Own the national news papers. NYT, Washington Post etc
-Own the online "news" like Yahoo News and other popular online news sites.
-Own Hollywood

This creates propaganda 24x7.

-Own the uninformed voter that cares more about voting based on race or their own personal agenda's instead of what's better for the country.

-Black vote is heavy Obama for the simple reason: he is black. They own a strong advantage in the woman's vote because of Pro Choice and they revere Hillary Clinton.

-Own the poor vote by sacrificing the upper/middle class by extreme taxes. They are much more likely to turn out because what else do they have to do other than vote. Voting can be seen as their job, because if they don't vote, their handouts can get taken away or altered. They are also moving a lot of the middle class into the poor class, thus increasing their voting pool.

-Own the Hispanic vote by opening the floodgates along the southern border no matter how damaging this is to the economy. This vote will only get larger.

-Own the younger vote by putting extreme leftist in colleges to pollute young, impressionable minds.

-Buy votes with special treatment. Obamacare is hated by the country, yet they depend on the unions so they pass exemptions for them. Oh, don't want their own party in congress to start questioning it, so they pass exemptions for them.


Their tactics are sickening, but brilliant. No way can the Republicans or any potential party compete with the propaganda machine, free handouts and illegal immigrants amnesty. I honestly can't see the Republicans ever winning another presidential election and after this latest f up, I don't see them controlling the house/senate anytime soon.

Never has a President been able to and excused for lying as much as Obama. Never have I seen a President continue to convince people that it's OK to spend up to 1/4 of your income on healthcare, where no where in the world spends more than 4% of their income on healthcare. I sat and watched a young democrat college student at a very prominent school beg to be taxed 60% of her income or more. Are you effing stupid I thought?

I think there is more likely to be a civil war, complete collapse of the US or the red states seceding before republicans control the white house again, not unless things change significantly.

As an American, I am terrified. Regardless of political affiliation, you should be to.
Its hilarious watching you trying to come to terms with the unpopularity of the Republican Party, and yet still not owning the real reasons. Its all make believe and faux-intellectualism to you. You're so warped in your ideology you fail to see that the Reb Party has become the corporate party who uses conservative religious overtones to try and cobble together a popular party base. How long will it be before even conservative Christians begin to say, "They don't really care about our issues, they just use the emotion of them to rally us to their cause: hoarding money for the rich.

Has it even occurred to you the real uninformed voter might be those religious conservatives who barely make ends meet yet vote against their own economic interests in programs that only favor the wealthy?

Is it possible black people aren't just voting for "the black man" but are voting against eh obviously "anti-black man"?

Is it possible the strength of the actual middle class was in unionized labor and that Corporate welfare programs that favored union busting and shipping jobs overseas has depleted the ranks of the middle class so that it cannot sustain the economic engine of America without going into debt, once again, to rich corporate entities?

That there has always been a large hispanic population in the southern United States and that when you paint all such people as "illegals who don't belong" it will create an eventual backlash?

That college is designed to teach you how to think, not what to think, and that this realization always leads to challenges of the current status quo (also known as conservativism).

That "the country" does not hate Obamacare, only a segment of it based largely on scare tactics from the right. Corporations don't want it. Oftentimes when they show "disapproval" numbers, up to a quarter of those disapprovals are people who believe it isn't liberal enough, in other words, they wanted a single payer system.

There is no real threat of a civil war, not anybody with half a brain believes that. The states with the most economic power are not red states. Most of those states get assistance from the Fed, not the other way around. This is simply a bunch of cry babies upset that the ideology they clung to like religion is demonstrating why it is short sighted and led by fools. But, hey, there's no delusion like self-delusion, opine on.
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