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Old 10-18-2013, 01:09 PM  
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House Republicans Are Now Turning On Ted Cruz

“I could have written this story from day one. If you follow the Cruz plan, you end up exactly where we are,” Rep. Adam Kinzinger said.

WASHINGTON — While Sen. Ted Cruz tries to spin the 16-day government shutdown as a moral victory for him and his conservative followers, a seething, bitter anger has been building among the House Republicans who followed him into the fight.

GOP lawmakers had hoped to avoid a shutdown and use the funding fight to squeeze some concessions from Democrats on the budget. But that was until Cruz launched his quixotic campaign to defund Obamacare — rallying the conference’s tea party hardliners and forcing Speaker John Boehner and other leaders along for the ride. Not only did Cruz’s crusade badly damage public perceptions of Congressional Republicans, it left them with a worse deal than they likely would have gotten if they had never shut down the government.

“I don’t think there’s any question [it’s worse]. I could have written this story from day one. If you follow the Cruz plan, you end up exactly where we are,” Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger told BuzzFeed. “I think it’s obvious that we had a really grown up plan on how to deal with this, we had some in our party who rejected that, and we had to go along with [the Cruz] plan.”

Asked if unhappiness with Cruz is widespread in the conference, Kizinger said, “Sure yeah, absolutely. I think we all feel the same.”

New York Rep. Peter King has long been one of Cruz’s loudest critics since the push to defund Obamacare began (and even before that), and he left the Republican conference Wednesday morning with an I-told-you-so attitude.
“I think it’s important for Republican leaders around the country to speak out against him and neutralize him,” King said of Cruz. “Otherwise he’s going to start the same nonsense again in December or January. He’s the guy that caused this, he’s the guy who is a fraud because he never had a strategy to begin with. And if we let him do it again, it’s our fault.”

Others said House Republicans should shoulder some of the blame for following Cruz in the first place.

“Well, this has been a productive exercise hasn’t it?” snarked another Republican congressman. “We can blame Ted Cruz, and yeah, he convinced a lot of people that they were somehow not really conservatives if we didn’t take this route, and that’s ridiculous. But at the end of day, we played along. So shame on us.”

Cruz still holds considerable sway among House conservatives, who rallied around his cause.

But even within the ranks of the conference’s most ideologically pure, there’s frustration with the path Cruz led them down.

“You can’t just pull the pin on the grenade, roll it in the tent, and walk away,” one conservative Republican said. “There’s real frustration” within the House Republican conference, the lawmaker added.

Asked if it was a mistake to make the shutdown and debt limit about defunding Obamacare rather than spending and debt, Rep. Thomas Massie tersely said, “I’ve got no comment on that.”

Rep. Ron DeSantis, however, acknowledged that making defunding Obamacare the primary rallying cry obscured more realistic goals, including eliminating an employee subsidy for lawmakers and their staff and delaying the individual mandate for one year.

“We didn’t articulate that well. It got kind of lost in the initial defund push,” DeSantis said Wednesday.

Republican Rep. Reid Ribble of Wisconsin, without calling out Cruz specifically, said that part of the issue leading up to the shutdown was the fact that House and Senate Republicans were not on the same page and divisions spilled out into the open.

“If we as conservatives want to create a bicameral strategy together — and not have one side pushing the other side, if you look at how the House Republicans have voted vs. how the Senate Republicans have voted, it’s dysfunctional. No one has sat down and said, ‘What does the conservative movement in the 21st century look like?’ And hopefully the lesson learned here, is that that will be answered soon.”

After the Senate deal was announced, Republicans had virtually nothing to show at the end of the two-week shutdown. Cruz was swarmed by reporters in the Capitol who asked if the GOP civil war that had broken out had been worth it when in the end very little had changed, except for Republican poll numbers which have tanked considerably.

“We have seen a remarkable thing happen. Months ago, when the effort to defund Obamacare began, official Washington scoffed. They scoffed that the American people would rise up,” Cruz said. “We saw the House of Representatives take a courageous stand listening to the American people, that everyone in official Washington, just weeks earlier, said would never happen. That was a remarkable victory to see the House engage in a profile of courage.”

If there was any blame to go around, Cruz said, it belonged to Senate Republicans. Cruz had launched into a 21-hour filibuster a few weeks ago, urging his colleagues to vote against a procedural vote.
“Unfortunately, the Senate chose not to follow the House. And in particular, we saw real division among Senate Republicans,” he said. “That was unfortunate. I would point out that had Senate Republicans united, and supported House Republicans, the outcome of this, I believe, would’ve been very, very different. I wish that had happened, but it did not.”

Republicans were nervous that Cruz would employ a filibuster-esque tactic to delay passage of the deal in the Senate. But Cruz relented, saying he understood it would not effect the outcome in this case. Cruz said that he would continue to fight against Obamacare, but did not hint explicitly how he intends to do that.

A House GOP aide said that a lot of members have come away from the shutdown experience, cognizant that their strategy needs to improve moving forward.

“You certainly have to look at whether or not we should chase ideas or objectives that you just can’t win and if you do so what expense,” the aide said. “I don’t think many people are going to take [Cruz] very seriously if this is a tactic he wants to use moving forward.”
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Which, I might add... I don't believe that's an accident. Ted Cruz is there to do a lot of block and tackling for Rand Paul. I don't think they'd come out and say it, but I've felt this way for a good long time, ever since Ron Paul first endorsed Cruz - something that Paul doesn't do lightly.

Watch for yourself... Ted Cruz will always run hard to the right of Paul, who will serve as a conduit between the conservatives and the establishment.
Hey, your interpretations/predictions have been so on the money up to this point, how could you possibly be wrong?
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #17
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wanna bet?
As long as they continue to have no self awareness or care about who they insult, then yes, they're going to get destroyed in 2014 elections.

And this is a classic example. It's not that people disagree with what they're fighting for. Obama isn't that popular right now. People despise the way the GOP is doing it. That's the problem. As long as the tea party has a complete lack of self awareness, the party is doomed.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
Hey, your interpretations/predictions have been so on the money up to this point, how could you possibly be wrong?
They have been, actually. This whole saga played out pretty well exactly like I said it would the week before the filibuster happened.

For that matter, I predicted Obama as our next president back in 2006 and posted as much on this forum. I've been talking about the impending Republican civil war for at least 4 years now, well ahead of the curve.

My record for reading political tea leaves is pretty impeccable. Not that I get everything right, but I get well more right than I get wrong.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
What goal posts have been moved? I said from the very outset that this wasn't about the short game, that it was about the long one. And winning politically is meaningless if you don't "win" anything. Congratulations, Obama, you win a continuation of the sequester and the continuation of a lame duck presidency. Enjoy your prize!
Waaaaaaait wait wait wait. Was this on the negotiating table?
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #20
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U.S. Senator Cruz blocks confirmation of new FCC chairman
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-senator-c...203107887.html
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Waaaaaaait wait wait wait. Was this on the negotiating table?
No. There was never any danger of Obama not being a lame duck president.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
They have been, actually. This whole saga played out pretty well exactly like I said it would the week before the filibuster happened.

For that matter, I predicted Obama as our next president back in 2006 and posted as much on this forum. I've been talking about the impending Republican civil war for at least 4 years now, well ahead of the curve.

My record for reading political tea leaves is pretty impeccable. Not that I get everything right, but I get well more right than I get wrong.
"When Speaker Boehner hands Ted Cruz the trophy of a year delay on the individual mandate, we'll see who knows nothing..."

Who "knows nothing" in this quote of yours?
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #23
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No. There was never any danger of Obama not being a lame duck president.
Was just trying to figure out why that was included.

I guess it was just a tremendous non sequitor.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
"When Speaker Boehner hands Ted Cruz the trophy of a year delay on the individual mandate, we'll see who knows nothing..."

Who "knows nothing" in this quote of yours?

That delay is still up in the air right now. We might not have gotten it this round, but it's far from being a settled matter.

All they've done is kick the can down the road. They're taking a time out. Nothing is settled here.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:20 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
That delay is still up in the air right now. We might not have gotten it this round, but it's far from being a settled matter.

All they've done is kick the can down the road. They're taking a time out. Nothing is settled here.
So if they don't eventually get that year delay, its obvious that Cruz and Tea Party's actions have been a.....



searching for the words.....






a.....




Colossal Failure!


Right?
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:22 PM   #26
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Politics is fun. A lot of people do something stupid then they seek one guy to blame. Cruz shut down the world for 3 weeks. Alone.

Peter King couldnt sell fish to seagulls. John McCain is a colossal ****wad. But lets focus on Cruz. Not Lindsey Graham. Not Nancy Pelosi. Not any number of D or R ****wads. Pile on Cruz and no one will look at the rest....
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:25 PM   #27
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So if they don't eventually get that year delay, its obvious that Cruz and Tea Party's actions have been a.....



searching for the words.....






a.....




Colossal Failure!


Right?

I don't think so. The whole gambit, as I said from the very beginning, had little to do with the actual outcome of this skirmish. It wasn't about Ted Cruz vs. Obama. It was about the Tea Party vs. the Establishment. The Tea Party got what they wanted: a fight, where votes mattered and Republicans had to go on record.

Everything else was just a side matter. This was about the fight, not about the outcome. The outcome is still in the air, and will ultimately be determined in November 2014.

Now, I understand that the establishment media wants to set the narrative that it's a complete loss, and that the Tea Party is on the run, and that this clearly means Obama has momentum. They'll find out soon enough that this is false on all counts. And the worse the Obamacare rollout looks, the better Ted Cruz will look. Especially once people start getting their insurance premiums.

If Ted Cruz didn't do this, the debt ceiling fight would have been about how to compromise the sequester. Whether anyone understands it or not, Ted Cruz brought home plenty of spoils for the Tea party. He's very well regarded among his constituency.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:28 PM   #28
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No. There was never any danger of Obama not being a lame duck president.
Why is that?

Is it because the GOP does not want to do good faith negotiations for the best deal that could pass both houses and not be vetoed?

Why does Rand Paul whisper about how excellent a strategy it is to blab, blab, blab about Obama not being willing to negotiate?

Did Rand Paul come out as a winner, when he is caught on open mike, whispering about how good an idea it is to blab false talking points during a government shutdown? You and him have something in common, delusional evaluation of piss-poor strategy.

Rand Paul is winning as much as Charlie Sheen was during his meltdown.

Rand Paul is a windbag who talks through his nose. Your hero ain't going nowhere until he learns how to speak another language other than pomposity through the nose.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:30 PM   #29
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I don't think so. The whole gambit, as I said from the very beginning, had little to do with the actual outcome of this skirmish. It wasn't about Ted Cruz vs. Obama. It was about the Tea Party vs. the Establishment. The Tea Party got what they wanted: a fight, where votes mattered and Republicans had to go on record.

Everything else was just a side matter. This was about the fight, not about the outcome. The outcome is still in the air, and will ultimately be determined in November 2014.

Now, I understand that the establishment media wants to set the narrative that it's a complete loss, and that the Tea Party is on the run, and that this clearly means Obama has momentum. They'll find out soon enough that this is false on all counts. And the worse the Obamacare rollout looks, the better Ted Cruz will look. Especially once people start getting their insurance premiums.

If Ted Cruz didn't do this, the debt ceiling fight would have been about how to compromise the sequester. Whether anyone understands it or not, Ted Cruz brought home plenty of spoils for the Tea party. He's very well regarded among his constituency.

Not sure who his constituency is. Or how big it is. Is this another Ron Paul-like deal? He is still a God to his hard core Paulies but realistically there is no large constituency. Are we seeing the rise of the new Ron Paul? Im not sure he carries the flag for a lot of those who saw themselves as part of the tea party 4 years ago. But then the tea party today isn't what it was when it swung the midterms back then.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:55 PM   #30
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The fight. That's what we wanted to accomplish. Just the fight.

It wasn't about winning or losing. It was about fighting. And it's only stage one. This wasn't demoralizing as much as it was energizing. The tea party is moving back into gear for 2014.
That's funny, because at the beginning of the shutdown you said it was time for the Republicans to collect their concession, and that the R's would win the shutdown because in spite of opinion polls, they had leadership.

What did that leadership accomplish for you, and where are those concessions?
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